The Four Wards Podcast - Episode 449: Everything is Nerfed

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards podcast. Hey, what's up? It's Eric Brah, voice of Draven, Jerks, and Velcaz. [00:00:13] Speaker B: And you're listening to the Forwards podcast. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Here to help you move forward and lead. Hello and welcome to episode 449 of the four Wards podcast. I'm your host, as usual. I'm Jack Soman, and I've got with me three other wards to help you move forward. In League of Legends, we've got free shooter. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Hello. I've returned from escaping a hurricane. [00:00:54] Speaker A: We're very glad you escaped. [00:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I was the last flight out of North Carolina before flights got delayed. It was great. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Jesus. [00:01:02] Speaker C: Oh, shit. [00:01:05] Speaker A: That voice you hear saying, oh, shit is mike of many names. [00:01:08] Speaker C: I didn't know you were in the path of a hurricane. Glad you're okay. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:01:15] Speaker A: We're learning free shooter lore live on the show that the other hosts didn't even know. Speaking of which, another host that didn't know about it, it's pillow pet. [00:01:23] Speaker D: Hello. I'm glad you are okay. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Alright, guys, we are the Forwards podcast. We do have a new forwards discord. Come join the discord. Come hang out, come talk to us, ask us questions, play games, chat about esports or chat about anime, ask for tips and tricks, share clips of crazy shit that's happened in your games, all that fun stuff. Link is in the episode description because it's one of those gibberish discord links, but please come join the discord. We look forward to hearing from you. We got some twitch. I stream pretty regularly lately. Most evenings that can be found at Twitch TV Jackson, where sometimes it's me getting trolled and ranked, and sometimes I'm playing the new Zelda is a good game. Free shooter can be found at Twitch TV. Freeeshooter. That's right, there are three es in free. And are you actually streaming anything free? [00:02:22] Speaker B: I actually plan to now that my work travel is probably subsiding for the next little while. I don't know what I'm gonna stream, but I actually do plan to actually start streaming regularly. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Cough. Cough. Echoes of wisdom. Cough. Cough. [00:02:36] Speaker B: I don't have a capture card to stream off consoles. [00:02:40] Speaker A: Elden ring, we're gonna have to fix that for you at some point. Free shooter. [00:02:46] Speaker B: I just played through all of terraria again. I probably should have streamed that. [00:02:49] Speaker C: God, that game's so fun. [00:02:50] Speaker A: Yes, you should have. And of course, pillow pet can be found at Twitch TV. Pillowpet, what are you streaming? [00:02:57] Speaker D: Lately, I haven't been streaming, but when I do stream, it's been legend of randomizers, Ocarina of Time and Majora's mask and some League of Legends. Thought about streaming some shadows of doubt here recently. [00:03:11] Speaker A: I'm with you on the randomizers, although I haven't. I've only done like one super Metroid map rando in the last week and a half. [00:03:17] Speaker B: But I love Random and Mike doesn't. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Stream, but we're still trying to bully him into it. [00:03:21] Speaker C: You're closing the gap. We got a bunch of people joining recently. [00:03:26] Speaker A: We'll get there. Alright guys, shoutout to Codex, ninja, Pillow, pet, and Robogon for supporting the podcast at the Shoutout tier. Thank you guys. We literally could not do this without you. You guys are paying for the hosting so that we can keep this show on the Internet. Now, if you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com. the forwardspodcast $1 a month just tells us that you love us. Dollar five a month gets you an exclusive feed to some behind the scenes audio of our prep work before each show. And dollar ten a month will get you a shout out, just like Codex, Ninja, Pillow, pet, and Roboganga in every episode for as long as you maintain that tier. I and all of those tiers get you a special little Patreon supporter tag in the community discord. So get on it. Last but not least, listeners, we need your questions. I am now realizing as I'm doing the intro, that we forgot to check for new questions at the start of the episode before we when we were doing the prep, because we are a professional podcast who totally know what the hell we're doing. But listeners, we need your questions sent in to theforwordspodcastmail.com so we can answer your questions on the show. And it does in fact look like I do not have to be angry, dad Jax this week, because some of you did in fact send in questions. So thank you. Those of you who did, we will get to them as soon as we are able. All right? And with that, we got a topic tonight, because it's a patch week, makes topics easy. Yeah, we got patch 1419. This is the big post worlds patch. That's right. I know worlds has barely begun. Literally. The play in stage has concluded, and the main stage has not started yet as of when we were recording this. But last patch was intended to be the world's patch, which means this is the patch that riot is free to make big, sweeping, weird changes that won't fuck up pro play because they're not on it. And this is also the start of split three of ranked for the rest of us, which means this patch is big. Except unlike most big patches, this isn't big in the oh. We, like, completely revamped everything. And here's a new complete system. This is big in the oh. Literally everything has been tweaked since, oh. [00:05:57] Speaker B: I gotta do my placements again. Damn it. [00:05:59] Speaker C: You're mostly gonna see the, like, sweeping changes at the very end of the year or the very beginning of the year, because that's when they're like, okay, we've finished everything else. There's no more. Back when there were only two ranked splits, that that was when they would do it at the end of the second one. But now that we have another third one in there, they're sort of shoving that off to the very end of the year. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Can I say? [00:06:20] Speaker A: Yep. [00:06:20] Speaker B: I don't like three splits. [00:06:23] Speaker A: I really hate it for the very specific reason of they artificially reset you really hard without actually resetting your MMR all that hard just to give you an artificial climb back up in each split. I am currently in silver one, getting like 30 lp a win and losing like 17 a loss. And it just feels fake. Like, having three splits really exposes how artificial the grind is. [00:06:53] Speaker D: And I might be old school, I might be old school, but I don't like the splits at all. Like, I really like just the one flat season and then a huge change at the end of the year. Like, I always liked that. [00:07:05] Speaker A: So we'll go into that in an off week where we don't have a giant patch to talk about. I think there are meaningful pros and cons to the split system, and I want to have that be an actual topic. So I'm going to remember to write that down as a future topic right now while I make one of you talk about a change in patch 1419. But before I do that, I do want to cover across the board, almost every item in the game received about a 10% nerf on completed legendary items. That means think of a, like, final part of your build. Any item that would be not a component for something else, but like, a complete total item. It's about 10% worse. We are going to be covering the outliers, items that either did not get worse, had their identity shifted, or got massively worse. Those kinds of stuff, because everything lost, like five to ten, ad, ap, health, armor, magic, resist, whatever, across the board. So, Mike, take us away with the first change you want to highlight. [00:08:11] Speaker C: So actually there's a little subtopic real quick that I want to put in. It's not very big. It's not on the list. But it's something we talked about early on. Wards don't give XP anymore. This is important because now you're not like shuffling the XP on someone. It doesn't change timers for when people hit level two. That's a big component for people in some portions of ranked doesn't exist anymore. To get to an actual change in an item. Let's talk about some iceborne gauntlet changes because this is one of those outliers that is really like an extensive change with very little numerical tweaks that have a huge shift in how it's used. So the big thing about it is that iceborn gauntlet is one of the items that's a sheen item. And its spellblade damage went from 180% to 150% adhd. Hundred percent. Uh. Its slow got changed from 15 scaling with max health to 25%. Still half value for ranged. And then its cost went up 400 gold. It used to be 2500, now it's 2900. This is goddamn huge. This is possibly like one of the biggest changes for anybody who built Iceborne and some people who didn't have a spellblade that they were keyed to Ezreal. It's just so potent at giving extra damage. It's really good on people like volibear. Anyone who has a nice easy auto attack reset and wants to build slightly tanky. Iceborn gauntlet's brilliant for you. If you weren't hard coded into the Trinity force which also got its nerfs there, iceborn gauntlet may take the kick because now you're really tanky. I. I think Iceborn might, might be well outside of lich bane which got its own ap changes. I think they're actually going to be probably the two main spellblades you see, and that t force might be falling on the wayside. [00:10:31] Speaker A: We'll see how that shakes out because I think a lot of Trinity force identity champions really value the attack speed on Trinity Force. [00:10:38] Speaker C: That's true. [00:10:40] Speaker A: But for a lot of the tanks or fighters that were splashing into Trinity force I think they just go ice sport now. [00:10:49] Speaker D: So I just did the quick math on that with the slow. Anybody over 2500 health that would have built over 2500 health, this is a nerf like this. For the slow 2500 bonus 25 it just says HP. So I'm going to go with just HP as a stat. So once you get over 2500 health you're losing slow percentage. Since it's at 25% just base slow. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Yep. Sounds like I have been rushing this item on volibear. It actually feels really good as a first item on Volibear now. [00:11:28] Speaker D: Oh, it's a really good first item. Like just the damage and the slow alone. Like most champions, like, we'll say. Although lally out there got it solely just for that slow so she could hit her abilities. So getting that item a little earlier and having a bigger slow early is going to help her a lot, especially with the damage. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Well, it's a little later. It is 400 gold more expensive. [00:11:50] Speaker D: True. [00:11:51] Speaker A: That's the nerf to it, but they gave it more power in addition to more expensive. [00:11:56] Speaker C: Having the ability to actually not lose damage. Taking an iceborn over something else is kind of big with the spellblade passive. It's so much extra tankiness for someone like an ad carry who wants to splash into something tanky. Ezreal is. Ezreal's blue build is back in business, baby. That will key on another change for later. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Well, I can talk about one of the other spellboard items that got changed, plus a couple other ap items. Lich bane. Lichbane. So combined cost went down by 50, even though total cost went up by 100, just because of component cost changes. Ability haste went down by five. The spell blade AP ratio went down by 5% and the movement speed went down by 4%. The ap went up by 15. It's now, what do we say, the second highest ap item behind death cap. [00:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it's tied with. [00:13:04] Speaker C: It's the only thing left. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Shadow flame now. [00:13:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Outside of Rabadon specifically, it's the highest AP item in the game. [00:13:11] Speaker B: And shadow flame. Oh, no, that's. No, shadow flame went down to 110. So it's. Yeah. Um, so Lich band is going to hit like a truck for anyone that builds lich plane. Even with the ap ratio going down on it. Um, it's still just like, if you can at all make use of the spellblade, passive is worth picking this up. Even, like, you know, it's niche on, like, Lux, because Lux has her passive. Like, it might just be worth it. [00:13:45] Speaker A: I'm considering just starting to put lich bane as my core build in on Ziggs again because of this change and because Zigg's passive got nerfed a little while back and Lich bane helps offset that. [00:13:59] Speaker C: This scares me on the blanken. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker B: I've been thinking about Kassadin this batch, honestly, with some of these changes. [00:14:07] Speaker C: Oh, boy. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Just real quick touching on a couple of the others that got changed. Ludens haste got cut in half. It went from 20 to ten. But that's actually the only thing that changed on it. It's AP stayed the same. It's call stayed the same. Everything. It literally just lost ten haste which honestly not bad considering everything else. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Considering the nerfs to all of the other lost chapter items. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Yep. Then the last one, storm surge, which after its buff last patch has been back to being a rush item on a lot of champs. The reason you're seeing a lot of syndrome worlds. Um, move speed down a percent. Uh, storm raider movespeed down 10%. The duration is from 2 seconds to 1.5. And most importantly the squall damage, the pop, uh, the base went up by ten, damage from 140 to 150. But the AP ratio went from 20% to 15%. So that pop should be doing good chunk less. Especially with a lot of the other just ap nerfs across the board. AP totals are going to be a lot lower. So it's a bit more than a 5% nerf because that total number is going to be smaller as well. [00:15:43] Speaker A: All right. I wanted to just draw a comparison between Ludens and the others because I think it demonstrates the intent behind why I lich bane and Ludens got the treatment they did relative to other items. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Go for it. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Ludens lost most of its ability haste. It only has ten, now it has 100 ap. The other items that build out a lost chapter have 85 ap, 80 ap and 70 ap. Thats malignant blackfire torch and archangel staff. They all have some amount more ability haste. Generally as the AP goes down, the ability haste goes up. Ludens is now bursty as fuck relative to the alternatives because it just has more ap than the others. [00:16:28] Speaker B: Yep. [00:16:28] Speaker A: And combine that with Lich bane now being a like top tier ap item, their intention is very much with storm surge as well. Like they're trying to make it. So burst champions are bursty still. [00:16:42] Speaker D: Yep. [00:16:42] Speaker B: And I'm. I agree with the philosophy of as AP up pace goes down. The Krushu philosophy. [00:16:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Generally my problem is that I feel like Ludens is just the best of the lost chapter items by a mile now for most mages, almost certainly. [00:17:01] Speaker C: Yeah. I think it's a pretty. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Unless you're hard bound to one of the others. [00:17:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's basically a. Are you using the passive on malignant blackfire dark angels? Yes. No. Ludens is your best. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Well, I want to talk about let's pivot for a moment. We've talked about items a lot. I want to talk about runes. They made several rune changes. [00:17:34] Speaker B: This patch, we scroll for ten. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Biggest. What's that? [00:17:38] Speaker B: We scroll for ten minutes because our sidebar got taken away again. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I hate that. So the biggest change in the runes is that lethal tempo is back. It has been reworked. Now you get stacking attack speed on attack against an enemy champion, just like you did before. The amount is lower than it was before. And now at max stacks, you get on hit damage instead of gaining auto attack range, like the old lethal tempo. And this bonus damage, it's meaningful, but it's not like a tremendous amount. If you have, let's say, 100% bonus ad and you're a level 18 ranged champion, it's 48 on hit damage. Like, that's good, but it's gated behind a condition of stacking. And it's. That's on a champion where you're doing like 400, 500 damage in auto. My initial impression is I think this rune is just numerically too weak right now. We'll see. [00:18:45] Speaker D: I am glad it's back, though. I'll be illness. [00:18:48] Speaker A: I'm glad it's back. I feel like it's really limited. You have to be basically like a kog'maw type champion where you're just an on hit DP's champion to care about this rune right now. [00:18:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Someone who, like, literally is rushing. Just attack speed and nothing else. [00:19:04] Speaker D: Now I know the. The meta for the yasuo and yone, the wind shooters, has been kind of up in the air. There hasn't been a, like a yes go for this rune answer, except lately I've been seeing grasp. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Yep. And I don't think this changes that. [00:19:20] Speaker D: And that's what I was gonna say. I don't think they're. They're. They're happy it's back, but they're not so happy that they're going to go away from that big burst that they get from grass. Same with, like, tryndamere. I don't think Trin's going to run this at all. I think he's going to stick with grasp. [00:19:36] Speaker A: The. The build that the wind shitters have been going is blade of the ruined king Stridebreaker. [00:19:42] Speaker D: That's scary. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Then they build crit, but only then they. They get both of those first. So, uh. Yeah, it is what it is. [00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:59] Speaker A: All right, so that's lethal tempo. But there's other rune changes that are meaningful in here, too. I'm gonna quick hit these. Cause most of these aren't as like, major presence of mind. Most people only really know this rune as the one that gives you back mana when you kill people. It actually had a problem with the old design of being heavily skewed towards damage over time effects. Now it's not. Now it just gives you a restoration of mana. When you deal damage to a champion on an eight second cooldown, this means that now is the same whether you're dealing damage over time or whether you're just hitting someone every 8 seconds. [00:20:38] Speaker B: I like that. That's a good change. [00:20:40] Speaker A: This is massively better. This just makes presence of mind more usable on more people. I've been taking it on champions like Ezreal, and it feels great. Shield bash no longer gives you resistances when you get a shield, and instead bashes harder. Nimbus cloak now gives larger amounts of movespeed, but the movespeed decays, so it's more of a surge of movement speed when you cast the summoner spell initially, and then you slow down over the duration instead of just 2 seconds of move speed. And then the other one that I think is the. Yeah, I like those changes. Just sharpening the identity of the rune. And then they changed biscuit delivery. It still gives you biscuits. You still get them at two, four, six minutes. Biscuits no longer have anything to do with mana. They don't restore mana. They don't give you Max Mana. They heal 12% of missing health when you eat them. And you gain 30 Max health when you eat them. That Max health is actually really big. I've been taking this rune on ad carries where I'm just like, I'll just take magical boots and or slightly, slightly magical boots, whatever the fuck it's called. Free boots. I take free boots and I take biscuits and I'm like, cool. I get an extra 90. Max health on an ad carry is often the difference between limping away with 20 gp from an assassin or a burst mage and dying. Like, that's a lot of health for an ad carry where you usually only have about 2000 ish health in the first place. [00:22:19] Speaker D: 90 health at six minutes is a lot. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I mean. [00:22:24] Speaker D: Like. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Like, how much does the first roam? The mid laner comes down at level six. That's. You're eating an entire, like, not primary spell. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Extra ruby crystals, 150. [00:22:36] Speaker D: Okay, so you're getting half a ruby crystal for free, like. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Yeah, basically. And it helps you stay in lane. [00:22:43] Speaker D: 12% of your missing health is. I mean, quite a bit, especially if you're taking those trades. I just, I feel like this is makes it a lot better. It makes some sad. Top laners missing the mana. I mean, I think off the top of my head, you know, sion's a little sad. I can't remember if he would take this all the time. I know gangplank. He takes this at least he used to because his mana problems allowie, I think would use to take this as well. Just any champion that in the top lane that had mana problems would always take this. So they're a little sad. [00:23:18] Speaker A: I'm going to point most of them over to look at new presence of mind. It's much better for that identity. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess it's good presence of mind got changed at the same time because honestly, a big reason I like biscuits a lot was also the mana part. Like, not even the max mana, just like essentially having a mana potion. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Yep. [00:23:37] Speaker D: I miss Mana potions. [00:23:41] Speaker A: I do and I don't. I miss them for nostalgia reasons. I agree with riot completely on why they got removed. [00:23:48] Speaker D: What was the rune that you could still get mana potions? They removed it because it was super. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Kleptomancy was given them. [00:23:56] Speaker D: Oh, Mandy, that was a fun. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Now that's something I miss. I loved. I was a kleptomancy enjoyer and abuser. [00:24:03] Speaker A: I don't want to go on too big a tangent. I loved the idea of kleptomancy giving you random effects. I did not like that. Kleptomancy was just the most gold efficient rune because it just gave you money. [00:24:13] Speaker B: Yes, I agree with you. [00:24:14] Speaker D: Skill points. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yes, it could give you skill points. But I didn't mind that one as much because it was limited to one per game and it was random when get it. [00:24:25] Speaker C: But also, it wasn't like a bonus skill point. You just. You just got a skill point early. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:30] Speaker B: I mean, that's like rod of ages. That's so kind of big. [00:24:33] Speaker C: It is. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Rod of ages is a whole level, including all the stats that entails. [00:24:37] Speaker B: True, true. [00:24:39] Speaker A: And you can also. You can still get the skill point. It's in the one of the other runes. Time warp tonic time warped the one. [00:24:47] Speaker B: That replaced time warp tonic, whatever it's called. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Now. The one that gives you a potion at level three, six and nine. [00:24:54] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. [00:24:55] Speaker A: You just get a skill point at level tonic. [00:24:57] Speaker B: That's it. Yep. [00:24:59] Speaker A: That runes good, by the way. Highly recommend. Anyway, wants to go next. [00:25:07] Speaker D: Well, I haven't talked yet, so I'll go over a couple changes that I saw that are going to be pretty good for the health of the game, I believe. So I'll bundle them together. Thornmail and sunfire. So Thornmail lost a lot of health, 200 health, and gained ten armor, which is significant in a way, because if you don't have the health to complement your armor, you're wasting your armor. So you got to build your health with your armor. And that's what Thornmail did originally, and it gave a decent amount of damage on the thorns attack itself. So what happened to Thornmail is the cost went down from 2700 to 224 50. Sorry, I can't talk. The health, like I said, went down from 350 to 150 armor went from 70 to ten. And the thorns damage was ten plus 25% of your bonus armor. And now it's 15 plus 15% of your bonus armor. So significantly weaker. [00:26:14] Speaker C: Late game gonna quickly change. You say that you said 70 to ten. You mean 70 to 80. It went up by ten. [00:26:19] Speaker D: Oh, I'm sorry. It went up by 1070 to 80? Yes, significantly weaker. I would say early. As far as damage goes, what they're trying to do with these items I'm getting ready to talk to is give it the identity of, like, wave clear ir items to help tanks and juggernauts. Even that would build it that don't have good wave clear to give them the wave clear that they need ten armor is quite a bit, but not when you're losing 200 health, in my opinion. What do you guys think on Thornmail? [00:26:55] Speaker C: I think there's only one champion that, like, can conceivably rush it early. And that that's actually sion because he has his own health mechanic built in. Give him extra health. And it's pretty much just that you can't push me out of this lane. And that's only if you're facing someone who would be getting any form of life steal or healing, because otherwise there's better things to get. I don't Ramis anymore. [00:27:22] Speaker B: I don't think it should have been on Ramus anyway. [00:27:25] Speaker A: I've been pretty outspoken on that specific topic before of I feel like Thornmail has been wildly overvalued by people for literally years. I think it being cheaper is good. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:27:39] Speaker A: This item already sucked. [00:27:41] Speaker D: I just don't think you're ever gonna see this item anymore, like, at all. Even. Even for, like, the grievous, there's just better items to get. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Now, for grievous, it's, there's better champions to apply grievous than tanks in most cases. [00:27:56] Speaker D: I agree. I think Thornmail, you won't you won't see it anymore. And if you do, it's gonna be very niche. There's a better wave clear item and I'm getting ready to talk about it. [00:28:05] Speaker A: And that's our mill remains core for Ramus, but I don't. You should be. [00:28:10] Speaker D: It complements his kit too well for it to not go with Ramus. But, yeah, with sunfire, this is a bigger, more meaningful change for it. Junglers, I believe, are gonna be a lot happier with it. And that's what they're aiming for is with sunfire, is just your wave clear and it's gonna be really nice. So with sunfire, the immolate damage was 15 plus 1.75% of your bonus HP, and it's going up to 20 plus 1% of your bonus HP. The minion bonus went from 25% to 50%. And now it's getting a monster damage bonus from 0% up to 50%. And the big key to this is the damage no longer ramps against champions or epic monsters. So it's no longer going to be your DP's carry in team fights. And team, you're not going to mindlessly do damage for, like, just standing there. So it's not going to be as meaningful in team fights as it is going to be helping you get through the laning. And a lot that, a lot of that's going to come down to their build components, bombies and bramble, which the changes to them, I feel like are more meaningful than the main items themselves. Like the thorns. Damage on brambles almost got doubled, went from six to ten. And bombing, losing health. You weren't necessarily buying it for the health anyway. You're buying it for the fighting potential. So you could actually trade back. Originally, the damage to Minion and monsters went from 25% to 50% and the immolate damage went from 13 plus 0.5% of your bonus hp to just 15%. So balmies, to me, is just better early and way better for your clearing jungles like tanks in the jungle. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yep. I wanted to point out sunfire having that ramping that it used to have was why it was pretty much always better than holo radiance. Except for specifically the case of a laning tank against Amhdez. That's why you never saw junglers building hollow radiance. Cause sunfire was just better with this change. I feel like this also opens up. Cause now the two items are much closer to parity with each other for everything. I feel like this opens up hollow radiance to junglers now, because if the enemy team is heavy on magic damage, you can actually go hollow radiance and not feel like you're just clearing massively slower than you otherwise would. [00:30:46] Speaker D: So, yeah, like, we're not about that. We're not like nobody wanted. We're not talking about holo radiance. But it did also with the ML eight, it did get like a decent change to monsters. It went from 0% to 25%, and the same kind of changes with sunfire. So, yeah, halo radiance, you'll definitely see it a lot more. [00:31:07] Speaker A: I think basically it's brought closer to parody because it didn't receive the same ramping already. So sunfire losing it brings them closer together. Alright, should we shift gears completely and let me talk about an ad carry? [00:31:25] Speaker D: Ooh, do it. [00:31:26] Speaker B: Sure. [00:31:27] Speaker A: All right, so, listeners, if you weren't aware, I've been playing ad carry lately, and I was really excited for this rework prior to the patch coming out, and now I've played as it, and I think Tristana just sucks right now. So the gist of what they're trying to accomplish with these changes is to push her out of mid and make her an actual bot lane carry. Again, some of that I think they accomplished. Her passive proc damage is massively down when you're just last hitting things, which actually feels really good as a bot laner. Cause you're not just hard auto shoving automatically anymore, you're soft auto shoving. You feel like you have a lot more control. They gave her back the attack speed on her q. They lowered the range she gets from level ups on her passive a little bit. And then the big ones, they added ad ratios to her rocket jump and her ulta and changed her active use of her bomb completely. Her old version of her explosive charge, based on your critical strike chance, did up to a third more damage if you were at 100% crit. They nerfed the shit out of the base damage of the bomb, and now it does up to 75% more damage at 100% crit. And Infinity edge actually scales the explosive charge now. So up to 215% damage if you're 100% crit with IE. That's what I was excited about. That sounds great. The problem is, gotta get there, as I've complained. What's that? [00:33:13] Speaker B: You gotta get there. [00:33:15] Speaker A: You gotta get there. And ad carries have severe itemization gap intentionally for Crit. Ad carries. You can get ad and crit on an item. You can get attack speed and crit on an item. You cannot get ad attack speed and crit on an item, which means most crit marksmen are going a non crit item first, such as static shiv or um, kraken slayer, so that they feel functional and good at one item, and then they're accepting that their second item kind of sucks. So they can get to a three four item power spike. Tristana doesnt get that luxury anymore because she needs to be building Crit immediately because her iconic explosive charge, the reason you pick the champion, doesnt fucking do anything until you have Crit. And thats not hyperbole. A max rank explosive charge without Crit does 220 damage with four or 200 damage with four autos, plus a 280% bonus ad ratio. The ad ratio part is okay. That's really weak for something that is not only a decent cooldown, but also four autos to empower it. So I feel like these changes, they accomplished the goal. She's shit in mid now. Don't play Tristana middle. But she's also just kind of shit and bop because the items don't support what she needs to do now. She needs there to be an intermediary item that is 25% crit and some amount of attack speed and ad for her to ever feel good with this design. [00:35:02] Speaker B: The problem is they're never going to put that in because then every ad carry will automatically buy a first item. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:12] Speaker C: So yeah, the big thing for me is that Tristana now actually has a point of weakness in the game because she really didn't before. She was just incredibly potent early. Incredibly potent late. And the mid game, like two to three item power spike, she was just like one of the best ad carries around with that because her attack speed steroid really just allowed her to ignore some of the issues that you had normally. [00:35:40] Speaker A: So traditionally, Tristana was strong up until first item and then had a trough where she just didn't gain strength the way other ADC's did off of the second item and then starting at third item was strong again. And she is a late game powerhouse now. The only builds that still follows that curve is ludicrously expensive because, by the way, her best build right now. You want to take a guess? [00:36:06] Speaker B: Free shooter, I. E. Rush. [00:36:09] Speaker A: No, no, it's dumber. [00:36:12] Speaker C: You untold. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Essence Reaver. Essence Reaver rush just threw up in. [00:36:17] Speaker B: My mouth a little. [00:36:19] Speaker A: Her essence reaver rush into flicker blade is her best build now and then. [00:36:28] Speaker C: Does she need the mana from Essence blade? [00:36:31] Speaker A: She needs it to sustain, cast over. [00:36:33] Speaker C: That's right. They took away this q cost. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So I will admit I have not actually played that build because I learned that that was the best build after I last played her. But, uh, without that build, doing what I was doing before for builds. Cause before this change, I was already not building attack speed. I was building, like, collector, that is, and just blowing people up. [00:37:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I tried that. That feels like shit now. [00:37:03] Speaker A: It feels like shit now because you do so much less damage on that first collector than you did before, which is why I'm annoyed with it. So, yeah, we'll see how it shakes out. I need to try that build now and report back my findings. But Tristana definitely dead in the mid lane. Caveat emptor in the bot lane. [00:37:31] Speaker D: I played recently, one game with Tristana, and I won't say it's a good sample game because it was on ultimate spellbook, but I will tell you that Tristana with Ken and Ult is kind of absurd. [00:37:45] Speaker A: So I'm not surprised. That seems like it would be really good for the way she wants to play anyway. [00:37:52] Speaker D: Yep, that poor smolder. [00:37:56] Speaker B: All right. We still got a lot to go through, so I'm going to go quick through one of the other champions. We got this patch. Elise got some changes, and I actually like these changes. They're pretty minor, but they're just like quality of life and make her feel better to play. So on her passive, the spiders always regenerate to full health when resumed, and they jump when you cast your spider form Q instead of one. Elise hits, so they're on the target faster, doing more damage, and are just, in general, more healthy. Elise's Q and E in human form now reveal the target. So that's the. It's a damage over time. And then the e is the cocoon. If you hit someone in a bush, it reveals them. Now, that's huge. And she can also flash. Flash to redirect the cocoon, which is, like, kind of a staple on a lot of junglers. The whole, like, cast your ability then flash to redirect it. So she can do that now she's in the modern era. Repel it used to grant a stronger version of her passive, or grant her passive, essentially, whenever she would target a opponent to land on. You get that now, regardless, even if you just rappel back down in place. And her ult just the swapping forms is a second, shorter cooldown. So it's, like, not huge changes to Elif, but just a lot or Elise, but just a lot of quality of life that makes feeling this champion a lot better. [00:39:31] Speaker D: Elise, to me, always feels like, she's always been strong, but she's a feast and famine jungle. Like, she has to get ahead early, or she just feels bad the rest of the game. So this, I feel like, will definitely help her, and it will definitely give those Elise players more skill expression. [00:39:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Being able to flash redirect her e alone is, like, huge for, like, high elo releases, but, yeah, it's just a lot of quality of life. Like, reviewing targets in the bush when you hit them with cocoon is also huge. [00:40:05] Speaker D: I was gonna say it feels really bad when you have, like, abilities and you're hitting them and they don't reveal. I feel that, like, it feels really bad when you're hitting abilities or can't hit abilities because they aren't revealed. I think Rumble has one of those, like, his flamethrower doesn't work if they can't see them in a bush. [00:40:26] Speaker C: My flamethrower still hits. Everything still hits if you can't see. It's just nothing gives vision for him. [00:40:32] Speaker D: It just, to me, it just feels bad when you hit abilities, and it doesn't give a vision. But I understand why not every ability can give vision. [00:40:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Another reason to always have pink wards in your back pocket. [00:40:44] Speaker D: Mm hmm. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Or have your trinket ward off cooldown so you can place it in the bush. All right, micropillo, you guys still have more changes to cover than we do, so why don't you go next? [00:41:00] Speaker D: Mike, you want to go ahead and go and finish off the champion? [00:41:03] Speaker A: Let's. [00:41:04] Speaker C: Let's do the. Let's do the largest potential change with the champion. They can't get right. Not rise. Accurate, not rise, because that's the other champion that can't get right. Cassandra. This is, like, his fourth major rework on how he does stuff. [00:41:20] Speaker B: It's his third this year. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yep. [00:41:24] Speaker D: He. [00:41:25] Speaker C: He is designed to be one of the highest skill expression tanks you can play, and he is still that. But their. Their stated goal is they're trying to sort of squish that a little bit so that a good Kissante player isn't so much better than an average Kissante player, but that there will still be weaknesses within his kit. And, oh, boy, did they get a lot of kit changes. Everything has a slew of changes except his base stats, which only lost 25. Attack range. Important, but not a massive one. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Also, free shooter. I do want to call you out. This is his third change within the last year. Not this year. The first of those reworks was in 1321, a little less than a year ago. [00:42:19] Speaker C: That was the end of last season. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:23] Speaker B: Okay, close enough. [00:42:24] Speaker C: So his passive it went from 15 to 20 damage with one to 2% max health scaling at what? Or essentially whenever you gained your ULT levels, one 1.31.6 and two which turned to 20 plus one to 2% target health based on level. So it has more of a gradual scaling as opposed to when you hit your power spikes and it's just raw more damage up front. Now, Kasante's basic attacks and abilities will add the passive percent additional target max health damage plus 1% per 100 bonus resistances. Well all out. Well all out of which a lot of these things are gonna be distincted well all out. And the second portion of these, there are three things that got taken away. He no longer does true damage with this passive while all out massive. He no longer deals increased damage while all out massive, and he no longer gains 25 attack range against mark targets. So he lost 50 range during that essentially timeframe. That's massive. Just passive buffs in general. Next set of changes for his Q, he went from 28 scaling to 20 mana cost to just 20. The damage went from 30 to 130 plus 40% ad plus 30% bonus distances to 70 to 190 plus 35% bonus resistances. So a little bit buff on the bonus resistances and completely taken out the ad ratio. His cooldown on it went from three and a half to 1.75 seconds with zero to 250 bonus distances causing that shift down to 3.5 to two from zero to 120 bonus resistances. [00:44:33] Speaker A: How many of you knew that Cassante's Q cooldown scaled with his resistances? I knew the damage scaled. I had no idea the cooldown scaled. [00:44:41] Speaker D: I learned it the hard way when playing him and noticed that the CDR did not help at all. [00:44:49] Speaker C: I thought it was just his levels, to be honest. The ranks on it, but I was wrong. [00:44:54] Speaker D: But you can definitely feel it if you've played him. Like his Q gets down ridiculously low. And yes, it does get low. [00:45:02] Speaker C: It's going to get low quicker, but it's not going to get as low. But we have more because it's not done yet. His changes are insane. So the all out cooldown modifier was a 1 second reduction with a 1.33% 2nd minimum to a flat 33% reduction. Which means he will never get as low as he was before. But it it's not as potent initially. His cast time, because it also has a cast time, went from 0.45 to 0.25 scaling from zero to 1600 bonus health to 0.45 to 0.35. From zero to 120 bonus distances. Pushing things all to be in the bonus distances. A good idea. Not. Not making all of his ratios everywhere. It also just means it's a flat nerf on his cast time. He no longer has the reduced cast time. Well, all out flat. He once again slows enemies that he hits. While all out, the base width went from 150 to 100. They removed the little 100 unit circle hitbox that's directly around Kasante. And it no longer resets upon casting r, which, depending on how far you were going with your r, didn't matter. [00:46:31] Speaker A: It'll usually still be off cooldown naturally, but not always anymore. [00:46:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker C: Now if you just punch someone back a little bit, then you don't get your free q again. [00:46:43] Speaker D: Now for the w. That change on that char, that change only. I feel like targets, pros anyway, who were able to. [00:46:50] Speaker C: That portion of the change is big. The rest of it is a essential nerf to q. I think overall, it's much. It's much thinner. It's much longer in its cooldown in comparison to how short of a cooldown it actually is. So, like the meaningful nerfs to his qemena, his w went from 20 to 100 base plus 100 or plus 50% ad plus 85% bonus resist plus six to 10% scaling max health to 40 to 120 plus 8% plus 2% per 100% bonus distances targets max health. Potentially a lot more max health damage, because now the max health damage scales. No more bonus resist scaling base damage. [00:47:45] Speaker A: And no ad ratio. [00:47:46] Speaker C: And a no ad ratio. [00:47:47] Speaker A: The no ad ratio is a common theme across all his changes. Let's. We're spending way too much time on Cassante. Can we summarize these a bit, Mike? [00:47:55] Speaker C: Okay, so the basic changes all around here are. A lot of his things are getting slightly shorter or longer. Cooldowns. Baseline, he's being sort of shifted more towards being full tank when he's not all out, to being a fighter. While he's all out. You lose a ton of your physical damage when you went all out, which is being swifted over into armor, pen omnivamp, and attack speed. And then he gained a bunch of random physical damage to it. The main thing is, is that if you knew how Cassandra worked. Do you? Don't anymore. You're gonna. You're gonna have to see some. Some meaningful shifts in him. He's still gonna be a couple. Yeah. [00:48:41] Speaker A: There are a couple other specific changes that I think are worth highlighting. His w. He can no longer change the direction of it while he's channeling it before he releases it. [00:48:50] Speaker B: Yay. [00:48:51] Speaker A: He is now committed to a specific direction the moment he taps, touches the button. [00:48:55] Speaker C: Yeah. That is probably one of the biggest changes and the most meaningful of those. The second most meaningful one. His e can no longer go through walls while he's doing all out. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Yep. [00:49:12] Speaker C: And then. Yeah. And they also just changed the range in general. Massive production in overall dash speeds. And then his all out change to being. Plus the jack shipping. [00:49:28] Speaker A: You can't turn off all out early. You are now committed for the duration of all out to be squishy but high damage. [00:49:38] Speaker C: It is a very meaningful choice to actively use it in a team fight if you are not isolating a target. Yeah. Because you can't become the tank again once that person dies. [00:49:52] Speaker D: Yep. [00:49:53] Speaker B: For 15 seconds. You are now a fighter. Like. Yeah. His playstyle is very. Has changed drastically as it needed to. [00:50:03] Speaker D: I'm assuming, because I don't see it listed. He still loses, like, a lot of his health when he casts this. Correct. [00:50:11] Speaker A: The health loss and resistance losses did not change. Okay. [00:50:16] Speaker C: And they actually meaningfully made sure that, like, jack shows bonus resistances also went away so that you couldn't gain the bonuses and then they would keep them. So this is massive for how he functions. There are so many other little minor tweaks. You, if you play Cassante or plan to play Cassante, look at them, because his changes are incredibly meaningful. And actually going through and looking at them means a lot. But it's just another massive rework, and he desperately needed it. Their big stated goal is he should not be able to be played in all instances as the safe pick and fight anything. [00:51:05] Speaker B: I like looking at his win rate craft since the patch, because it's a giant v of when it came out, he went down to, like, 42%. And now he's back to, like, basically where he was as people learned how to play him again. But it's really funny to look at. [00:51:23] Speaker A: All right, that's enough Cassante talk. Free shooter. You and I are going to talk about some fighter items, but I'm going to let you kick it off with holebreaker. [00:51:34] Speaker B: That's pillow pet. [00:51:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Did I say free shooter? Pillow pet. Talk about home. [00:51:39] Speaker D: Okay. [00:51:40] Speaker A: Sorry about that. [00:51:41] Speaker D: Yeah, I'll briefly go over it. It's. It got some meaningful changes with, like, percentages, and you'll hear those in just a second. But basically what they're. They're doing is it's going to be a weaker item early, but it is going to replace titanic Hydra as your single target damage item. For fighters who are wanting to trade or trade, getting straight ad for getting more health but not being punished and losing damage, it's going to make you tankier and give you the damage still. So going over it, it lost. Attack damage went from 65 to 40. The health went up from 350 to 500. Movement speed bonus movement speed went from 5% to 4%. Your on hit damage for melee was 140% base ad plus three and a half percent of your max AP HP going for went over to 120 of your base ad, up to 5% of your max HP and range got the same treatment. It's 70% base ad to the three and a half max HP to 84% base ad to three and a half percent max Hp. Sorry, that's a lot. This is a lot of word puking. So melee on hit structure damage went from 400% of your base ad plus 7% of your max hp to 300% of your base ad to 10% of your max hp. I'm gonna just summarize this. Weaker early stronger later when you get more health. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Also skewing melee versions of it to scale with health better. Range version scale with base ad better. [00:53:29] Speaker D: Good point. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Which is meaningful. [00:53:31] Speaker D: That is very meaningful. But basically at the end of the day and I guess I'll finish it off, you don't start getting the bonuses to level eight to 18. But they did increase the bonuses to 70, starting off with 70 for melee and 35 for ranged. And they don't it the item does not start scaling on its super minion resistances. Let me clarify that till you start at get to level eight. So they want. [00:53:58] Speaker A: All that means is that level eight's the floor. It gives you the 70 regardless if you're below level eight and somehow get hullbreaker super early, a lot of times. [00:54:07] Speaker D: You would see a lot of HP heavy champions rushing this item. That to me personally, I haven't seen it. I don't know. It's no longer going to be the case. It's probably going to be your 2nd, 3rd item just because of how much the HP scaling is now and they got rid of your the base ad scaling. I don't know. I haven't seen it yet or played with it. It's just definitely going to be a lot better later and it's going to give you more damage. [00:54:37] Speaker A: All right, so pillow pet, I want to run this by you because I want to see how much you either love or hate this fighter like health stacking fighter of some kind I'm thinking champions in the vein of sethe with hullbreaker, Titanic, Hydra, and overlords blood mail. [00:54:57] Speaker D: No, it's gonna be ridiculous. [00:54:58] Speaker C: Disgusting. [00:54:59] Speaker D: It's gonna be. They're gonna have tons of health and they're gonna do tons of damage. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Those three items, by the way, are now 1650 bonus health on their own. Just with those three items, it's. [00:55:12] Speaker D: It's going to make them hit you a lot harder, but they are going to, I think, lose a lot of their resistances. So you're gonna have to burst these champions down the best you can with the max HP. They're gonna be prone to, like, items like bork and things like that. [00:55:31] Speaker A: Yep. They're gonna hate Vayne and Kog'maw. [00:55:34] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. [00:55:35] Speaker A: More than they already did. [00:55:36] Speaker C: The thing I think I hate most about this is they're bringing it back into being a. Just build it if you want to do single target damage item as opposed to being a committed split push item, because this is now stronger than Titanic in a single target fight is their own stated goal. This is to replace Titanic, sort of. You can still get both in a single target situation based on its health scaling. [00:56:05] Speaker D: It's gonna make it a good, brawling item. Like four. It's gonna make your split push stronger because you're gonna be stronger. One V one. And then it would make you stronger going into a team fight where Titanic's automatically gonna be stronger just for the cleave damage in my eyes and the. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Fact that it's an auto reset is not to be underestimated on Titanic. [00:56:26] Speaker C: Never Titanic. [00:56:28] Speaker D: The auto reset is the main point of that item. [00:56:34] Speaker C: But when you get both, with all the ad reductions that are overall going on, it might just end up being so much more efficient simply because of the sheer health bonus it gets. There's a lot of reduction in ad across the board and AP. [00:56:50] Speaker A: I am scared of a heart. Steel psion with, like, 7000 life building Hullbreaker and just bonking turrets to death with a single demolish proc from full to dead. Because Hullbreaker's bonus damage, heart steal. [00:57:04] Speaker D: You got the. You're gonna get Hullbreaker. You're gonna get Titanic on psion. And the overlord's blood mail. [00:57:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:10] Speaker D: And he's just gonna have tons of damage. It's gonna be. You're gonna look at him and he's just gonna punch you with that heart still proc. And half your health's gone as an eight. ADC. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm scared of that. What? I'm not scared about is fighters building Chemtown chem punk chainsword. So they've made changes to all of the um, brain, all of the heal cut items to try to make them more slot efficient. But still not something that you want to just rush the item for itself, which used to be a thing for kempunk chainswords specifically. So what they're doing for Kempunk chainsword is they're making it more expensive. It's 3100 gold instead of 2800. It lost ten ad, which is the par for the course on this patch. But then it gained 200 life. So it is a meaningful tankiness for the slot for fighters. Morello's got a similar treatment of gaining a bunch of life on it that it didn't have for the last while and losing some of its damage and going up in price to be more slot efficient but not particularly more gold efficient because they really do expect us to just sit on the grievous wounds item base the base item and not bother upgrading it until late. But they want that upgrade to actually be worth our while. [00:58:40] Speaker C: Morello's also cost 750 more gold. [00:58:44] Speaker A: Yes, because it didn't get a massive, massive hit to its fucking ap to make up for it. It got a cost increase. The other item I want to highlight is a quick one. Shojin Spear of Shojin lost ad. Like everything else did. It lost ability haste completely. It no longer has regular ability haste on it. The health on it went up from 300 to 450 and then spear of shojins whole like shtick is that it gives you ability haste for your basic abilities that went up so net it went from 35 ability haste for your basic abilities to 25. And your ultimate now gets zero instead of 20. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Item socks. [00:59:30] Speaker A: I think the main hurt for this item is champions like smolder who were splashing into Spear of shojin and weren't actually the fighter class. I think they're sad about this. I think for actual fighters most of them already weren't building this item and this isn't changing that. [00:59:51] Speaker D: So the trend I'm noticing with this patch is Vayne got a buff like Vayne is good right now because max Health or health in general has went up and that that's gonna indirectly nerf a lot of champions who relied on true damage bar vein because vein is max health true damage. And if you were just a flat true damage like you're. You're getting indirectly nerfed because of the health increases. [01:00:23] Speaker A: Yep. And also Vayne suffered the least in atomization because we didn't really touch on it but just on hit marksman itemization basically took the least hit of anything. [01:00:35] Speaker D: So I see Vayne's win rate going up. [01:00:39] Speaker C: There's a second reason why Vayne got a massive buff, and it's actually a circumstantial nerf to a bunch of other things or slightly change. And it sort of brings it into maybe the next thing here. Armor pen is being changed across the board. Again, not across the board. Many of the main armor pen items are being changed. Okay, so far Shurelda's elaborate has been changed from its lethality to straight 30% armor penniless. They so the rancor passive, which was its scaling lethality buff to give you more increased essentially free armor pen was just removed and they said fuck it, we're getting armor pen. Get more haste lost 200 gold on its cost. Geraldo's actually good again. [01:01:30] Speaker A: Yep, it's a straight up buff. It's one of the few items that is strictly better in this patch. [01:01:36] Speaker B: And look, it was actually bad all year. We were right. [01:01:40] Speaker C: Lord doms didn't change its armor pen. Still the most in the game. 35% lost ten ad. But mortal reminder did lose that armor pen and it got a cost increase. So it's down to 30%. And it's total cost is 3200. Terminus always was at 30% for both armor and mister. So as a whole armor pen is now flat 30% unless you're building your lord doms. And that gives raw less ad as well. [01:02:21] Speaker A: Yup. It's the same amount of ad as mortal reminder does. So you're basically choosing between 5% armor pen or the heal cut. [01:02:30] Speaker C: So raw health much stronger overall. This is, this is, this is good changes for me. I think buffing total tankiness needed to happen and like a good way of. [01:02:50] Speaker D: Doing it again, going on vein. She's just inherently happy this patch. I I will say. Because she doesn't give. I don't think she ever built any armor pin because she doesn't need it. Correct. Like she just. Her true damage just eats through your armor. And just to top it off, we didn't talk about it because it's not meaningful enough to bring up is Steraks. Like the shield went down on it. And that's the only, like, counter to Vayne is shields is the shielding items. That's the only thing that, like, doesn't change her damage. Based off the number, I've seen a. [01:03:25] Speaker C: Couple people terminus on Vayne for the tankiness portion of it. You'd be better off building like the. [01:03:34] Speaker A: Terminus is a core later game item on vein, but she's not building it for the pen. [01:03:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Like she'd get hex plate first. [01:03:45] Speaker B: I agree that steric Shield nerf is pretty big. Another shield that got nerfed, but not in the way that it should have been nerfed. Koenig record. My favorite AP or mister item to complain about because it gives the most mister in the game at 80. So what did they nerf? It health Regen from 150% to 100% and the shield went from 18% a max HP to 15%. That part doesn't matter as much because HP, as we've said, went up across the board. So net that shield's probably going to be the same. The health regen hurts that one. That one's a nerf. But the cost stayed the same. The mister stayed the same. Other mister items had their mister nerfed. This is still the best Mister item in the game. [01:04:35] Speaker A: Yep. The. The whole reason free shooter's upset is that Koenig Rookurn pushes out all other MRI EMS unless your champion is hard bound to them. So, like, if you're a champion who's healing gated like Doctor Mundo, you still prefer spirit visage over Koenig record. [01:04:51] Speaker B: And it feels change bad when you're against like a couple strong AP threats to have to buy spirit visage because your champions kind of tied to it instead of the RKR in which would is just more tankiness. [01:05:05] Speaker A: Yep. And it also means that, like, you're never building force of nature. Cause why would you. [01:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah, force of nature is. Are you against rise? No, don't build it. [01:05:17] Speaker C: It's essentially your mister item for if you're stacking mister items. [01:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah. If you're against a team of literally five, eight magic damage champions, you'll build force of nature, but it'll be like your fourth Mr. Tank item. Cause you'll literally build it behind Kayne Grukern spirit visage if your champion has any healing at all. And Jack show, because Jack show is. [01:05:38] Speaker B: Just better than force of nature and warm ox. [01:05:43] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, we're. Are we unanimous that Kayneck Rukern is a stupid item? [01:05:52] Speaker C: They need to fundamentally change it to either be the strongest mister or have a shield. They need to just change it fundamentally. [01:06:01] Speaker A: I would love for them to cut the mister from 80 to 80 40 and make the shield bigger. Like the shield is a good identity. I like the shield part. [01:06:12] Speaker C: That would work. [01:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:15] Speaker A: Just make it not the ultimate Mister item. Even if you don't give a fuck about the shield. [01:06:21] Speaker D: It's the ultimate counter to a Kali top. Just throwing that out there. [01:06:26] Speaker A: I mean, it is. [01:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:29] Speaker A: I'm not gonna hurt you. [01:06:31] Speaker D: She just can't hurt you once you get it. Cause all her abilities are aphdeme scaling. [01:06:38] Speaker A: We. We are going long. So, pillow, take us home. Let's talk about the least ultimate items in this patch. [01:06:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I wanted to talk about the components. I'll go over them real quick. So dagger went from 300 gold to 250 gold. Attack speed unchanged. Fairy charm, your man in regen went from 250 to 200. Sapphire crystal, that gives you mana, went from 350 to 300. And the mana went up from 250 to 300. So that's a huge buff. [01:07:10] Speaker A: I love that it's now a one to one. One gold for one mana. [01:07:13] Speaker B: Yes. [01:07:14] Speaker D: As far as, like, gold efficiency, that item's great. And then needlessly, large rod went from 1250 gold to 1200, and ability power went down from 70 to 65. To me, like, the big change here is going to be your sapphire crystal and your daggers. [01:07:34] Speaker A: Yep. Daggers. Especially because, like, marksmen build a ton of those, they're so cheap. To just slot a dagger in, like, 250 gold is an actual, like, oh, well, I backed. I bought my legendary item. I bought some control wards. I have 250 gold lying around. Fuck it. We'll buy a dagger towards the next item. Whereas before, at 300, you often would be like, I have 250. I don't. I can't wait. I don't have anything to buy. I guess I just don't get anything in this slot. [01:08:04] Speaker B: I also like it because it's like I fucked up the level two and died. I might actually have enough gold for a dagger to come back to lane with something. [01:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:14] Speaker D: And I'm never gonna say this is the right choice, but you could also start two daggers now in lane. [01:08:22] Speaker A: You could please don't. But you could. [01:08:27] Speaker C: I don't think there's a single situation that would do that. [01:08:30] Speaker A: I don't think there's a champion that exists that would want 20% attack speed over 80, health and ten ad and. [01:08:36] Speaker B: Some life steal if they didn't nerf. Tristana, I could see an argument for cheesing with it. [01:08:43] Speaker A: Maybe just because you'd be able to get the explosive charge at level one. Actually, proc, all four. Maybe the sapphire crystals. [01:08:52] Speaker D: A very nice change. [01:08:53] Speaker C: I can only conceive, like an invade scenario. [01:08:56] Speaker D: Since biscuits don't give mana anymore. I think the sapphire crystal is gonna be nice. [01:09:00] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't even think about that. [01:09:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. If you just want to, like, waste a little bit of money and buy a sapphire crystal and hold onto it for a while, that bite legitimately be worth it, and then sell it later. [01:09:14] Speaker A: I mean, that was something that would regularly get done with Tyr before. And with this change in gold efficiency, I think you can actually just sit on a sapphire crystal and sell it instead of having to do it with a tier. [01:09:24] Speaker C: 300 mana is meaningful. [01:09:27] Speaker A: That's like, for the average champion, that's like five spell casts and some champions, it's even more. It depends on the champion. All right, we've gone super long, so we're not gonna have time to get to questions today, but I want to give a trinket tip before we wrap up here. Guys. You probably know I'm old. I also have been feeling kind of crap lately. Every time I'd wake up, my arms and hands would be kind of numb, and it was inhibiting my ability to play league of legends in the mornings. And I finally got off my ass, literally yesterday as we were, like, discussing when to record and looked up, trying to figure out what the fuck those symptoms could be. And you know what those symptoms match perfectly? Carpal tunnel syndrome. That thing that me growing up, I was always told was gonna happen. Cause you type too much? No, it turns out, you know what actually causes it more than anything else? The position your arm rests in while you're asleep. So I bought wrist braces for sleeping. And you know what I didn't have today? My hands weren't numb. I was able to type and use a computer and drive to work without having to worry about my hand falling asleep. It was fucking wonderful. Take care of your wrists if you're feeling numbness or feeling tingling or feeling pain, don't be a dumbass like me, or me, or actually figure out what the hell is wrong and get it taken care of immediately. Because what I learned on looking that up, if I had just continued on how I was, the eventual result of leaving it untreated is nerve damage. I could have permanently lost control and feeling in my fingers. [01:11:21] Speaker C: So this is one of those health things that there is a time when, if this continues for like, three, five days, that's when you go time to look. Because one, two days, maybe you've done something a little bit off, maybe you hit yourself a little off. Make sure you're paying attention to long term, which is consistent over a short ish period of time. Three to five days is long enough for a consistent problem to be noticed. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Yep. And to be clear, if I start to see symptoms, not get better or, like, I have numbness again in the morning, despite wearing the brace or anything. My next step is to go to my doctor. Like, don't neglect your health. I'm serious. I was fucking scared when I read. Oh, these matches carpal tunnel syndrome perfectly. And if I don't do something, I'm going to lose usage of my hands pretty much permanently if I don't take care of it. Like, that's fucking scary. [01:12:24] Speaker D: I think it's good to just in general health. If you feel like something's wrong, trust your gut. Trust your body. [01:12:31] Speaker B: Listen to your body. [01:12:32] Speaker A: Yep. I want to say, if you feel like something's wrong with your body, see your doctor. But we live in America, where that's not always an option for everyone because healthcare is stupidly expensive in this country. As a separate topic, this is not a political podcast, but please take care of yourself. Take care of your wrists. You only get two of them. [01:12:52] Speaker C: But if you can't take care of your wrists, no matter what, at least you can always play Lucian in the top lane. He's just that easy. You win the top lane, you win the game. [01:13:01] Speaker B: And if you buy a sapphire crystal, you get six extra cues at level one. [01:13:06] Speaker A: Perfect with that, guys. This has been episode 449 of the Forwards podcast. I've been Jack Zulman for free, shooter for mic of many names, and for pillow Pet. Have a great night. [01:13:20] Speaker D: Good night. [01:13:21] Speaker C: Bye, everyone. [01:13:24] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the four Wards podcast. If you want to support the show directly, consider checking out our [email protected], the four Wards podcast, and, of course, send your questions to the four wardspodcastmail.com dot so we can answer them live on the show. That's the four Wards [email protected].