The Four Wards Podcast - Episode 539: Yasuo is the Cataclysm of League

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards Podcast. Hey, what's up? It's Eric Bra, voice of Draven Jerks and Velkoz and you're listening to the Four Wards Podcast here to help you move forward in league. Hello and welcome to episode 539 of the Four Wards podcast. I'm your host as usual. I'm Jack Sohman and I've got with me my two other wards to help you move forward in League of Legends. We've got Mike of many names soon and Pillow Pet's back tonight. [00:00:52] Speaker B: I am back. That is correct, guys. [00:00:55] Speaker A: We are the Four Wards Podcast. We have a Discord. Come join the Discord. Come hang out, come play games with us. It's a great time. There will be another reason to come join the Discord and play games with us coming in a couple weeks that we will be talking about in a little bit. So make sure you're in the Discord so you can join us for that. We also do stream on Twitch. I can be found at Twitch TV, Jacksolman Mike can be found at Twitch TV, MikeofManyNames and Pillow Pet can be found at Twitch TV, Pillowpet. And of course I want to give shout outs to Codex, Ninja, Pillow Pet, Skippius, Esquire, Nope, Labana, Uncle Chrisco and Yeet the dab for supporting us at the Shoutout tier. Thank you guys so much for supporting the podcast. You guys keep us on the Internet. We also do have a Patreon. Head over to patreon.com theforwards podcast to support us. $1 a month just tells us that you love us. $5 a month gets you an exclusive feed of some behind the scenes audio of our prep work before each show. Sometimes it's literally just podcast prep, sometimes it's story time. Sometimes we just go on weird tangents. It's a mix of all of the above and then $10 a month gets you a shout out at the top of every episode. In addition to that exclusive feed and all of those benefits also apply to our general gaming podcast. Check out From 8 Bit to 4K on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Last but not least, listeners, we need more questions right into the 4 wards podcastmail.com with your questions so we can answer them on the podcast. All right guys, our topic tonight is not going to help you get better at League of Legends. I'm sorry it's not, but it could be a lot of fun. And if you're new to the game or newer to the game. It's going to be a fresh experience for you because Riot has announced that League Classic is going to be coming out on July 29th. Now what is League Classic? Well, if you're familiar with wow Classic, it's that. But League of Legends, it will be in the same client. You won't need to go download a separate program to do it. Riot client will take care of it for you. And it is going to be a weird mix of various aspects of early League of Legends. The they've said the general Cutoff is around 2013, but most champions will be the first version of whatever they were if they were reworked in that period. With some exceptions. One that they shouted out by name is that Dodge will not be There will be no random dodge within the game. This was a thing in early League, notably on Jax and then on Runes and Ninja Tabis where just you would dodge auto attacks at random. A percent of the time. It was removed early on. It was very bad. It will not be in League of Legends. So Jax for example will not be his original version. He'll be the version after they removed random dodge. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Yeah. To notably point this, this is not a point in time patch that they're grabbing. They're grabbing mishmashes from across this whole time and slotting them together. So you have second version Jax where you have beta version Twisted Fate and you have like a mix of the second iteration of Rune and Masteries, not quite the first one. And they have said and this is, this is one of the key things is especially in the early days of this, they will be listening to player feedback and doing slight changes to the game because they don't want this to be a completely unbalanced experience. They want you to go in here and have fun, but they don't want it to be as one sided as it was way back when. So things have been toned down in the excessive cases like original Kassadin was a little bit strong, so he's been toned down a little from where he was. Things like that. [00:04:52] Speaker A: Absolutely. So don't expect if you have specific memories of balance, those may not hold true. Even if they didn't change your particular champions or items numbers, the other champions they're going up against are not necessarily going to be the same versions that your version of your champion went up against. It is very much going to be a trip down nostalgia lane, not an exact replica of what League used to be. [00:05:18] Speaker C: And because they're pulling from patches like across the board for things, you will find some things that probably shouldn't be in the game anymore because they were a little bit too strong. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Yes, they have confirmed, for example, that Deathfire Grasp will be in League Classic even though the item is a problem. [00:05:39] Speaker C: So it's not. Their goal is never to make this a replacement for League because they care more about current patch balance than they ever will about League Classic patch balance. Yes, this is more for fun, but in the same vein that they have balance changes to like Aram to keep something from being wildly op. They do balance checks across the board for this as we're told. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Yeah, we don't know the specifics. To be clear. They haven't shown us like the details on everything. [00:06:14] Speaker C: We have no numbers yet. However, we have seen one game played last weekend they did this called a show match, a preview that they grabbed a bunch of really ancient pros who have been playing from the very beginning of the game up until a couple of years ago for retirement purposes, but no one who started later than like 2015. So we have a bunch of these, these old classic pros who got to play a bunch of their old classic champions. And it's shoutcasted by a bunch of the original shoutcasters from the time you had. Freak and Jod obviously were the two big names, but someone who we haven't seen in like a decade is Deficio. [00:07:01] Speaker A: Dude, I. I can't believe they got Deficio to come cast this. It. It was like he was never gone. [00:07:07] Speaker C: It felt so good to see him back. It sounded fantastic to hear his voice. I want him back so bad. [00:07:16] Speaker A: I just want to name the pros involved. For those of you who remember some of these people, they had a team that consisted of Ztai, Ambition, Scarra, Doublelift and Wei Zhao against a team that consisted of Soaz, Levi, Pawn, Captain Jack and Yellowstar. [00:07:34] Speaker C: Yellowstar was in the very first world. [00:07:36] Speaker A: One of them that was not a player during the League Classic period. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Yellowstar was in the very first Worlds appearance. So was Soaz. So as didn't win it. [00:07:47] Speaker A: They were only signed on next on the losing team. [00:07:50] Speaker C: But like that's right. So we've got some people who are there from the origin of the game. And then we have like these are pretty famous names across the board. Captain Jack has literally a move named after him. [00:08:07] Speaker A: Yep. Both Pawn and Ambition have Worlds titles to their name. So like 4 and 7 respectively. [00:08:13] Speaker C: And seeing them play again, you got to hear like they. This was more than the like you've seen some show matches where it's not real serious before. This was no, these guys played fucking seriously. And it was a game. [00:08:31] Speaker A: It was very fun. So check that out. It is on the LoL Esports YouTube page. It's a lot of fun. Highly recommend if you just want a glimpse into what League Classic is going to look like. Because for those of you who weren't playing back then, you should be warned. League was ugly before it got back to overhaul in like 2014 or 2015. Like that game was genuinely ugly. You're going to be surprised at how bad it looks. [00:08:59] Speaker C: League was based on a game that was released in 04. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Kind of. It doesn't have the tech debt of Dota, but yes, you're right. [00:09:08] Speaker C: But it was based around it. So its visual design language was all [00:09:12] Speaker A: based around it, which is all Warcraft 3. We do have a couple other confirmations of specific things. Old runes, other than the Dodge rune I mentioned will be restored, but you will not have to grind for them. They said that they will unlock as you level up your account. [00:09:31] Speaker C: Leveling account is a duty thing. You have a separate account for this. [00:09:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:35] Speaker C: Than your base one. [00:09:36] Speaker A: It is your same Riot account. But you will have to level up from level one in League Classic. You won't carry over whatever level you are in regular league. And I believe, I assume levels will cap at 30. [00:09:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Because that's how it worked back then. You'll also have the old Season 3 ish offensive, defensive and utility mastery pages instead of anything resembling what we have now. This looks like a wow talent tree from 2012ish. [00:10:07] Speaker C: It's a talent tree. It's essentially the same thing. Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Like for better and for worse. Trust me, there's a reason we don't have this shit anymore. [00:10:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker A: There will be 60 champions in the game at launch. There's some champions that are listed as probably coming soon that are from this period. There are some glaring omissions in the original 60 roster they're including and the coming soon champions that are from this era. Because by the time 2013 was over, I think league was already over 100 champions. [00:10:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Their. Their patch cycle early on was fast. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yes. So it is assumed that bringing other champions from the era into League Classic is something that they are open to doing. And expanding the League Classic roster to include everyone from the era eventually. [00:11:02] Speaker C: As a as a notable example, renekton was a 20112010 release champion. He's not in there. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yep. Maokai was 2011. He's not in there. So like there's a lot that might be added. Some champions that were Released after those champions but are popular are in there. Like Ari and Lee Sin are in there. So it is a mishmash. Generally don't expect anything from after 2013 to be in League Classic. That's. That's the one consistent thing is whatever champions, whatever versions of champions, whatever items we're getting, are generally going to be 2013 or earlier versions. [00:11:43] Speaker B: The sad thing about this is most of these champions are still going to be the exact as they are today because most of them haven't even got changed. The basics of them are going to be the same. Like when I'm thinking like Renekton, if he ever makes it, like, he hasn't really changed. [00:11:58] Speaker A: He hasn't really changed. I don't think Lux has changed much. I don't think Vayne has changed much. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Shaco has changed. They have changed. [00:12:05] Speaker A: They have changed, just not dramatically. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:09] Speaker A: So it's gonna be weird. Some champions, if you're like a main of and you just pick them up and start playing them, you're going to feel right at home immediately. And some champions you're going to have to learn as if it was a brand new champion. [00:12:22] Speaker C: So the absolute last champion if we go by this list will be Yasuo. He is the final champion released from 2013. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Oh, God. They're going to have to include him at some point, aren't they? Or are they going to consider him the cutoff of like. No. Everyone before Yasuo is valid, but Yasuo is reminiscent of modern League. [00:12:45] Speaker B: He's the cataclysm of League of Legends. [00:12:48] Speaker C: Yes, he might be. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Yasuo is the cataclysm. That's the episode title now. [00:12:52] Speaker C: I'll take it because, like right after the three, four champions, after Yasuo, Velakoz Braum Nar Azir. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not getting any of those. And that's fine. So what we wanted to do, dear listeners, is talk about some specific things we have either fond or dreading memories of that were part of classic League of Legends that we are either looking forward to or dreading having to deal with. If we play League Classic. Pilla, you want to kick us off? You have a funny one that I think a lot of people won't even realize was a thing. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I know which one you're talking about. Mana pots. I'm excited to get mana pots back. So it restored like 100 mana over the course of, I don't know what, like 10, 20, 30 seconds, something like that. I don't remember exactly, like 40 gold yeah, they were cheap, but they were so good to have. Like, it just let you stay in lane. And it was. I missed them. And when kleptomancy was a thing, you could actually get mana pots when kleptomans. When you get kleptoprox. And it was awesome. So I think that's just something that I'm kind of looking forward to being able to like. Yeah, I think I'll get a mana pot. [00:14:09] Speaker A: To be clear, Kleptomanzi is not going to be in this for sure. [00:14:12] Speaker B: No, no. We're getting old. [00:14:13] Speaker A: I wish. I have fond memories of playing Maokai vs Akali top lane with Klepto, where we both made more gold by fighting each other and doing no damage than we did from the game. [00:14:26] Speaker C: The old version. Speaking of that, the old version of people just getting money is an item, a set of items. The GP5 items. GP10 items. [00:14:35] Speaker A: So all of them are in, even though some of them had been removed by 2013. Yeah, they specifically said they're all in. So you will see people playing gangplank with all four of them. Because that was a build back then is you would just build all four gold per 10 items and farm on gangplank and then you'd hit six items really fast. [00:14:55] Speaker C: This was something that I remember hearing from them talking. And it makes me so happy because they reworded it back to its original name. And Jax and I are both huge fans of this. Even if he may not have remembered hearing it. It's back to being the Total Biscuit of Regeneration. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:13] Speaker C: This is an item named after a person who was like the first big YouTube like face before it became a rigged thing. [00:15:23] Speaker A: To be fair, they're. They're still called Total Biscuits. The ones that you get from the. The Rune page. There's now the Total Biscuit of Everlasting Will. [00:15:34] Speaker C: Okay, fine. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He had a very high number of referrals to Original League. And back then, if people got that many referrals, the reward was supposed to be that you got to design a champion. And Riot reneged on that because they were like, oh, shit. Not only did he do it, he did it really fast. [00:15:53] Speaker C: He did it way too quick. Way too quick. [00:15:57] Speaker A: And since you mentioned the name, its name was changed to honor his battle against cancer. That is why it is the Total Biscuit of Everlasting Will now instead of the Total Biscuit of Rejuvenation. [00:16:08] Speaker C: Yeah, we lost him a good long while ago. About seven years ago, I think it [00:16:12] Speaker A: was longer Than that. But yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker C: 2017, 2018. Oh, God. Nine. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So pillow's missing. Mana pots. I've kind of already mentioned that the Champions are going to be their original versions. I don't know if you guys have ever heard me complain about Modern Irelia. I actually loved original Irelia. [00:16:33] Speaker C: I did too. [00:16:35] Speaker A: I'm really looking forward to getting a chance to pilot Original Irelia again. She was so much fun. She was so stupid. Her stun was only a stun if the enemy had more health or equal health percent than she did otherwise. [00:16:52] Speaker C: It was a massive slow, but it was a slow. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:56] Speaker C: Her Ult was Gwen's ult. [00:16:58] Speaker A: Essentially like Gwen is the closest Modern League has to classic Irelia and it's not the same. So I'm looking forward to that. I literally made it to Plat in season four playing Irelia Top before she got reworked. Mike, what about you? What are you looking forward to? [00:17:15] Speaker C: So they've done some changes to a couple Champions that like, fundamentally made them more skillful, but they feel so different. I remember the old Katarina way back when she had a lot of the same feel that she does now, but in the original game design, it didn't have the sort of combo effect it does now. And so it was much more. She's a Burst Assassin and so she needs the Burst Assassin things. And then her Ult is pretty much the same. And a lot of what she did feels so very different while also being identical. So like her Q did a bunch of the jump things, but it didn't usually. There were no knife drops, so there was no regening abilities from that. It's just one of those itty bitty little micro changes that they've done to the game sense that has made her feel so different. And this is going to be a theme that I'm going to start talking about. Because of what they did. I used to be able to take her into the jungle. And you could do this with a lot more Champions that weren't supposed to be there and do really good clears. She was one of my favorite sneaky junglers that people would sit there and go, what the fuck are you doing? But it would work incredibly well because of some niche things that she could do. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. All right, Pillow, I'm questioning the next one you have on your list. Is that really something that you're looking forward to or dreading? [00:18:53] Speaker B: It's kind of dreading because, I mean, this is really. It's so. None of mine are really. I have one champion on my list and it's just because of how funny they are. But the next thing I have on my list is buying wards. You physically had to purchase everything. Every single ward that got placed. Unless you bought like the sightstone or had. There might have been a. There's some other way to get a ward in there. I think it might have been. Well, there was a. I think there might have been a summoner spell or something that you could do. I don't remember, but I'm kind of dreading this. But it's just one of those nostalgia things like just always remembering, like you have to buy a war. [00:19:37] Speaker C: So I have good news for you. You didn't see the show Match, did you? [00:19:41] Speaker B: No, no, I think I watched it. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Stone is a thing. [00:19:44] Speaker C: Not just Sightstone is a thing. There is a weaker version of trinkets. There is a weak ward, trinket ward. So you can not purchase wards and just use the trinket. It's a weak version. I think it's like a 32nd Ward. [00:19:59] Speaker A: Something like that. [00:20:01] Speaker C: You can still do that. [00:20:02] Speaker B: The only reason, like I, I, it wasn't such a big deal back then, but I think now with everybody's knowledge of the game and how much it's went up, not having the constant vision that you're used to and having to constantly buy wards, you're going to be super susceptible to ganks because it's going to be gank city. Because that's just the kind of world we live in with league now. [00:20:25] Speaker C: Sports are going to be cool. [00:20:26] Speaker A: However, you also need to remember that control wards weren't a thing yet. These are pink wards, which means your vision revealing wards are themselves invisible. So you will be able to have a ward that makes sure you know that that bush is clear of wards and the enemy doesn't know is there unless they ward it themselves. [00:20:50] Speaker C: Also, because we haven't actually mentioned this is an old map, the map has changed a lot more than you think it has. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:00] Speaker C: A lot of things, like different pixel bushes aren't a thing. [00:21:04] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:04] Speaker C: So word locations are going to end up being less static to where you see them now. They're going to be in weirder places. Also, I think pink wards weren't permanent. That was one of the changes they made with wards with like the, the vision wards was when they became visible, they became permanent. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Yes. So we're gonna have to see exactly what the details of wards winds up being. But it's interesting. Another thing I'm looking forward to though is actually literally the season two world champion strategy. I Am looking forward to Nunu support being a thing again. [00:21:47] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Back in season two, Taipei Assassins played Nunu support to win worlds. Nunu's kit back then, he. He passively had an attack and movement speed steroid. And the combination of Nunu with champions like Vayne was just crazy. It was so strong and also a lot of fun because you got to be Nunu as a support. You would run around and you'd eat things. Because he still had his consume. That didn't change. You'd still bushwhack people with your ult. But like, his rolling up a snowball wasn't a thing. [00:22:31] Speaker C: He just had a Couldn't be used on people. [00:22:33] Speaker A: His consume could not be used on people. It was purely on minions and monsters. He had a steroid spell, a point and click slow his eat, and then his ult. And his old is more or less what it is today. But the power of just being able to slow someone and speed up your ally made him incredible at running people down. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Yep. [00:22:54] Speaker A: So I just had to stop and look to that. [00:22:56] Speaker B: I just had to stop look because I had to make sure that old Galio wasn't coming because he. Oh, my gosh. [00:23:03] Speaker C: He might be one of those old champions. [00:23:08] Speaker B: You're talking about old like Nunu alt being the same. And then I started thinking of the AOE Galio all, and I was, oh, no. [00:23:16] Speaker A: Yeah, let's see what gets added. He's one of the ones that is not on the list to get added, but could be. He's definitely old enough that he could be. [00:23:26] Speaker C: He's a 2010 release. He's ancient. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, Mike. [00:23:30] Speaker C: Okay. The next thing on my list is something that I. I found out about through pro, and I was so furious, but it was so fun in the dumbest way possible. A little kid called Faker showed me this one in his first season before it was immediately taken away because when they saw him do it. Oh, my God. You used to have. Because the very first champion to not have an AP ratio was riven, which means every champion before that. Most ratios were based on AP. Some had some 80 champions, but they were all split. AP had AP ratios that were very strong on both his Q, which is pretty much identical to what it is now, except you don't get to choose where you land. And his W, which healed him a disgusting amount. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Yep. [00:24:27] Speaker A: AP Tryndamere should also be a thing. [00:24:30] Speaker C: AP Trendamere might also be a thing, [00:24:32] Speaker A: which is the same general idea of he does shocking amounts of damage with His E and he heals for a cartoonish amount every time he presses Q [00:24:39] Speaker C: Only I think ye will just always win versus the trend of air because he gets to sit there. Probably a huge W. Yeah, that's. That's one of those. Like if you did not have the CC to stop him, what are you doing? This is like a 1.2:1 point something AP ratio and he's got a lich bay and hit you afterwards. You're just dead. The game was much less tanky back then in overall as well. So you would see explosive damage from these AP Burst champions. And I'm really looking forward to it. [00:25:14] Speaker A: Fair enough. All right, Pillow, what else are you looking forward to? [00:25:18] Speaker B: So I'm looking forward to Pantheon. Looking forward to him coming old Pantheon because he had a passive after like four hits, he would block the next ability auto or tower shot. And he's changed a lot. He had a global ultimate, like a true global. His. I think he had a stun still. It was a kick, I believe, or something. And he still threw a spear, but [00:25:48] Speaker A: without the auto attack portion. [00:25:49] Speaker C: His Q was point and click. [00:25:51] Speaker B: I believe his Q was point and click. And they all counted. All these counted towards his four hit passive, which would put a shield around him and make him immune or block the next incoming source of damage. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Yep. Specifically did not block dots that were already on him. So he didn't just get Giga destroyed by like Teemo and Malzahar who are both champions in League Classic. They're old enough. [00:26:15] Speaker B: There's just a lot of old videos of old like Pantheon just being able to permanently dive you under a tower because he was always able to have his passive up because it also worked like stacking on minions or in towers when you would attack towers. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Oh God. I literally just realized this isn't going to have ability haste, it's going to have cooldown reduction which capped at 40%. [00:26:41] Speaker C: Yep. They still call it 40%. And it's also probably not going to have the scaling damage on towers. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's going to be weird. So the last thing I'm looking forward to, I've put original Mordekaiser with DFG in here. But what I really mean more than that is I'm looking forward to being able to play some stupid fucking Civ HD builds. If you don't remember CivHD, he was a content creator during early League of Legends who made very, very silly builds. The Mordekaiser one, the video was literally called Winning by Feeding. And the idea was you feed the enemy ad carry and then you1 shot them with Mordekaiser Ult and Deathfire Grasp. And then their ghost kills the enemy team for you. He has tons of silly builds like this. He has an AD LeBlanc video. He has Counter Bruiser, Bruiser Lu and all sorts of other weird shit. His videos were weird. His sense of humor was weird. But it was fun. And I miss the kind of goofy jank dumb bullshit that Sivhd peddled in his content. And I'm looking forward to getting a chance to play some of it again. I'm sad that I've now realized that Original Poppy is not listed in the champions that will be included in Classic right now. Original Poppy was bullshit. [00:28:09] Speaker B: Probably why she's not in there right now. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Her ult literally just said, you. You're the only one who can hurt me. And I do bonus damage to you. That was it. It was like five seconds of that. [00:28:20] Speaker C: Yeah. You. I can still kill other people, but I do bonus damage to you. [00:28:26] Speaker A: Yep. And the problem with that was that you would just Ult their support who couldn't kill you and then murder their team because what were they going to do about it? [00:28:34] Speaker C: Mm. [00:28:35] Speaker A: But that's not gonna be in Classic at launch. We'll see. It might get brought in later. Mike, I kind of briefly touched on your last one. But you want to explain why you're looking forward to Gangplank? [00:28:45] Speaker C: Yes. But also you reminded me of something else that I'm really looking forward to. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:51] Speaker C: I mentioned it sort of briefly with Katarina in the jungle. There was this old thing. And you. You Talking about Civ HD reminded me of Stonewall. Stonewall 008, which was the person who showed me these stupid jungles and how you do them and how great or crazy they can be. How to ash Jungle in season two. Things like that. Looking forward to going back and taking a look at these old videos and having a. Having a beast of a time with those. But that's not what I was talking about. What I was talking about was original gp, who's not super different from current gp, but also is there's no barrels. The big difference is there's no barrels and there's no, like, weird extra currency system. He doesn't have the silver shilling things. His Ult still does the exact same thing. Still this global. Huh? Down from the sky. His Q is still this single target. Kaboom. The big thing and eats oranges is still a thing. Like he ate oranges and it was [00:29:52] Speaker A: K. It's barely Changed all this many years later. [00:29:55] Speaker C: The biggest change, the most important change, the thing that got him reworked before season one or originally with season one. His original kit. If they're using his original kit because they are with tf. So I'm assuming they will. With GP was the only way in the game to deny minions. He would personally kill your own minion to give a buff to himself. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Yep. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Which meant they did not get experience or gold from this. [00:30:27] Speaker C: Which meant you saved it for cannons. [00:30:30] Speaker A: I. We do not know for sure if it's going to be that version of GP or if we're going to get the version that came after where his E was just a buff spell with no minion denial part. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah. They had to take that up because it was incredibly potent. But there's TF with a teleport on [00:30:48] Speaker A: his E wasn't fun. So there is a real chance it's not getting put in the same way random dodge is not getting put in. [00:30:54] Speaker C: That is a chance that that is a thing. But TF has a global teleport on his E, so who fucking knows? [00:31:03] Speaker A: We'll see. And then pillow you have one more on your list. But we actually don't know if it's even going to need to be a thing. [00:31:11] Speaker B: So I haven't done a whole lot of research into it. And like Jax just said, we don't know if you're gonna need to do it or not. But back in old League, we didn't have a ping system. There was. You had to type MIA or Care. You had to type. [00:31:26] Speaker A: There was one kind of ping. The ping you get by holding control right now is the only kind of ping that existed in old League. [00:31:33] Speaker B: And even back then, nobody listened to it anyway. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:36] Speaker B: So you had to type MIA or Care in chat for people to know that your laner was missing. And not that, you know, this isn't something that I'm looking forward to, but if we're going with the. The no changes outlook on it, like this is something that you might have to do. [00:31:53] Speaker C: They've. They've brought a bunch of the quality of life things like trinkets now exist and they were a benefit to everyone. So trinkets are still going to be a thing. Red trinket is still a thing. Yellow trinket is still a thing. They're older versions of themselves, but they're still existing. So These are like 2017, 2018 systems that they've brought back into the old game. I'm assuming things are still gonna be there. [00:32:18] Speaker A: That's my Assumption. But we don't know for sure. [00:32:21] Speaker C: But we don't know. [00:32:22] Speaker A: I don't remember pings getting used during the show match. [00:32:25] Speaker C: I don't either. [00:32:26] Speaker B: Throw in a couple honorable mentions that I've learned after the fact that Revive. [00:32:33] Speaker C: Revive is coming back. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Revive is back in the show match. They played a Revive teleport. Karthus. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:41] Speaker C: To combine with that, there's Rally and Surge. Who the fuck knows what Surge is? [00:32:44] Speaker B: Fortify Clairvoyance. [00:32:46] Speaker C: Yep. [00:32:47] Speaker B: And I'm kind of excited about Fortify too, because that was fun. [00:32:53] Speaker C: Fortify was interesting. Rally. If they have a bunch of the old items. ZZ Rots, which they do. Heimerdinger Rally. [00:33:02] Speaker A: ZZ Rot will not be in the game. That was way too recent. [00:33:05] Speaker B: It got data mined. It got data mined for Elite Classic. There's no way I'm looking at it right here. It got data mined in a league class. [00:33:15] Speaker A: There's no way. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Come on. It could be wrong. I mean it's on Wiki League of Legends. But these were data mined. [00:33:22] Speaker A: CZ ROT was added in 2014. There's no reason it should be in the game in 2015. [00:33:29] Speaker C: Yeah, ZZ Rots is not likely. But there was a pre ZZ Rots thing that buffed the cannons. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Banner of Command. [00:33:37] Speaker C: Banner of Command. [00:33:38] Speaker B: That was also on here. Datamined. [00:33:41] Speaker A: That one I could see being in. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Do we know if there's going to be unique items or can I six stacks ies. [00:33:50] Speaker A: We know for a fact you will not be allowed to six stack. Sunfire, Cape, Black Cleaver, etc. They said so on the broadcast for the show batch. [00:34:01] Speaker C: It is unique effect. Still is exist as a thing. The. The tag that puts on a thing. You could theoretically buy six of them. It's not gonna benefit you because you don't get the passive from all of them. But like 6 Rabadons is still the most AP you can get in the game. By a lot actually. Because old AP items. Old AP items had a lot less ap. [00:34:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Like let me give you a context. The only other AP item I remember with over 100 AP from that era was Deathfire Grasp. That's it. That's the only one I remember from that era. That was over a hundred besides. [00:34:38] Speaker B: And I got one more honorable mention. Frozen Mallet. Teemo. [00:34:44] Speaker C: Oh, Tanky Timo. [00:34:45] Speaker A: Remember that? Oh God. Are we gonna get. Are we gonna get the Holy Trinity Golem from season two? It does have listed here Warmogs and frozen mallet. [00:34:58] Speaker C: That's totally plausible. [00:35:01] Speaker B: Tankmo was always fun to play. [00:35:05] Speaker C: Oh, man. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Old. [00:35:06] Speaker C: Old version. Old force of nature. [00:35:10] Speaker B: It's been data mined. [00:35:12] Speaker C: I. I do not trust data mines right now for this. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I wouldn't trust data mines. But for those who don't know, Atma's Impaler was an item that had armor and gave you ad based on your max hp. [00:35:24] Speaker C: Also crit for some reason. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it was weird. It was removed shortly after the period that League Classic is including, so I assume it's going to be in the game. Atma's was hilarious on Sion. It was hilarious on Cho'. Gath. It was genuinely good on a lot of bruiser type champions and was generally combined with warmogs and frozen mallet. [00:35:49] Speaker C: Old Olaf might be disgusting. There's some things that I don't think [00:35:57] Speaker B: I was thinking. [00:35:58] Speaker C: Lantern Wriggles might be bad. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Extra ward. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Yeah. They specifically showed in the show match the spirit of the Elder Lizard was in, which is from the same era as Wriggles. So we might have Wriggles. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:11] Speaker A: Elder Lizard, Ancient Golem and Spectral Wraith are full. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Do we get true blue Ezreal back? [00:36:16] Speaker A: I hope so. I. I miss that. That was so much fun. [00:36:20] Speaker C: It was so Jungle Ezreal was so disgusting. [00:36:22] Speaker A: It was so stupid, but it was so much fun. [00:36:25] Speaker C: I think that that is a world skin too. Jungle Ezreal. [00:36:28] Speaker A: Jungle Ezreal is a world skin from well after the period Classic is covering. Jungle Ezreal was Haru in 2016. [00:36:37] Speaker C: Okay. Isn't that 17? [00:36:40] Speaker A: Pretty sure it was 2016. [00:36:41] Speaker C: 2016 is still a SKT. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Is it okay, 2017 then? Because yeah, Jungle Ezreal was a thing that recently. And this version of Ezreal, I believe is gonna be the one that his W was a heel. [00:36:53] Speaker C: It was. [00:36:55] Speaker A: I'm actually. I should have enlisted Ezreal as one of the things. I loved old Ezreal. I. I love current Ezreal. I still play Ezreal a lot. He's a lot of fun. Old Ezreal was so much fun. Okay. [00:37:07] Speaker C: There's so much we could keep going on forever. [00:37:10] Speaker A: We are looking forward to the nostalgia trip of League Classic. I don't know that any of us is planning on sticking with League Classic beyond playing a few games for nostalgia. We'll see how we feel after we do it. But we're all gonna play a few games for nostalgia, so join our Discord. The link is in the episode description so you can join us and play League Classic with us when it launches on the 29th. I want to have full five stacks [00:37:35] Speaker C: and if you want to see that show match, it's also been linked in the esports chat channel. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yes. So you don't even need to go hunting. The link is right there. Because for some reason it's not on like most of the VOD archival stuff. So you either need to go find it on their YouTube page or just join our discord and see it in esports chat. Okay, let's answer some listener questions. We've been gushing about nostalgia for way too long. [00:37:59] Speaker C: We're old people. [00:38:01] Speaker A: We are old. So our first set of questions tonight comes from Yeet the Dab who writes question one. What are some tips for fighting around level ups, specifically level 2 timers? [00:38:13] Speaker C: This is a dangerous question because it heavily depends on the champion you have and like, how the lane has gone. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Yep. [00:38:25] Speaker C: So if there are champions whose level two power spike so far exceeds the enemies that it doesn't matter what they have, what their health advantage is, you hit level two, you won that fight, essentially. [00:38:37] Speaker A: Almost. [00:38:38] Speaker C: But yeah, yeah, there's obviously the like, I'm down to 100 health me. But the power spike on somebody like Talon getting level two is disgusting versus [00:38:52] Speaker A: most other mages in addition to a second spell. [00:38:55] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's like having three. Or someone like Tristana, whose level two power spike is immense. Leona, who now has a full kit of CC at level 2. So you need to know what the champions you have versus what your opponent has. The fight for the the minions is actually like the most important portion of this, and it is the laning phase at the beginning. In total, this early fight for Level two is like the early Lane in a nutshell. We can't go into minutiae on that because it's insane. [00:39:37] Speaker A: So let's give some general tips. In general, you'll know from how the first wave went whether or not you will be able to hit level two first, or whether they will hit level two first. This is true regardless of what lane you're talking about. If one side is able to wipe the wave and crash it into turret, they have such an advantage at Level one, they're probably getting Level two first. If both sides wind up killing the wave around the same time and around the same health, they're probably going to kill that one melee, or in the case of Bot Lane, three melees to get Level two around the same time, be mindful of it. And in situations where one wave is stacked, like let's say, for example, if you're playing top lane and you got zoned off level one because you're a weaker Level one champion than they are. Well, they maybe didn't crash the wave, but you haven't cleared the first wave while they start on the second, they're going to hit two first. And a common mistake that I see made, especially in Top Lane, is trying to kill minions to get your own Level two, when the enemy is always gonna get Level two first, and then you die. [00:40:45] Speaker C: If you don't have very good wave clear on abilities or good range to get those shots in, you need to give up the level 2. Like if the positional is going down, you need to give it up. [00:41:00] Speaker A: And if you have those things, why are you behind your wave that much to where they can push for Level two on you like that? [00:41:06] Speaker C: There are some people who have a very strong Level one that are there. They're pushing you off of the wave, but you have very good ways of getting Minion clear. Like you can push a Ziggs off a Level one, but you can't really stop him from getting levels, things like that. It's rare. Fair enough, but it is a thing. But since we look at the next set of the questions, we know you're mostly talking about Bot Lane here, which means everything revolves around the support and you working together. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Specifically, this is an important one for supports. Try to save your support item procs to kill the second set of Melee minions. If you can go relatively even on the first wave without doing that, then you can use those procs to quickly kill the second wave of melee minions. When all three of those melees die, that 9Cs total is enough to level up both you and your ad carry. The worst thing you can do is when you're in an advantageous position in the lane level 1 and you consume all of your support item procs and they hit level two first. Because you can't kill the melees fast enough and their support can. [00:42:19] Speaker C: It happens a lot, especially if you're fighting early at Level one. [00:42:24] Speaker A: Yes. So with that question two, I am a bot Lane enthusiast who's been playing recently with my partner who is an Iron Support. Do you have any advice on things I can do in Lane that make decisions easy for them? How about things I can do to keep the game enjoyable for them, even when we're behind? [00:42:42] Speaker C: Well, what kind of champions do they like? [00:42:44] Speaker B: Enjoyable, I'd say. As far as keeping it enjoyable, just try to stay positive, Be uplifting. Try to, you know, give constructive criticism. Help them ignore. [00:43:01] Speaker C: The worst thing you can do is claim the worst thing you can just Claim with them. Absolutely correct. [00:43:05] Speaker B: And this being your partner, I'm assuming you're not claiming them. I would hope not. If you, if you tend to. Don't do that. Definitely. And if it's the enemy team or the your team is being toxic, help them learn how to mute things like that. Things that, you know, kind of bring the game to a one on one with you and your partner and kind of teach them the the ropes without having to have your allies who could be toxic tarnish that experience. [00:43:39] Speaker C: A lot depends on the champion pool that they're playing and what you can do to make things easier for them. If they're playing engage champions, be on the same page. Talk about things like, hey, we're gonna hit level two in like a couple seconds here. When I kill this minion, get ready to go in and we're gonna just focus on this one guy. Either ping on them or talk to them. Describe them. If they don't know the champion names, this is the person we're going to go on. Go. Things like that, things that give them easy direction to follow really help. Like easy direction is one of the things that you want to do. So things like can you kill this front minion here and then ping them to use up your spell. Things like that. Where we're talking about getting level twos or if she likes playing burst mages. Hey, help me shove. Throw your abilities down. Let's burn this wave and push it into tower. Guide them through. Things that help you synergize together. That's one of the easiest ways you can like bring them in whilst not being a backseat player for them, which is very hard to do while you're also playing the game because you may see things that they don't and they may see things that you don't. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Yep. [00:44:51] Speaker C: The other thing, and this, this may cost you more, but to help make things enjoyable, trust them, follow them on some things. Even if it's the wrong decision, just do it together. Because as we've talked about other times, the wrong decisions sometimes are correct. Because you go in, you don't always have to. Sometimes this is just feeding. Obviously don't both walk under a tower to give your free quills away, but support the actions that they're trying to do to make it so that it feels like they have impact. Because they do. And the easier they learn how to have that impact with you to build that synergy together, the more you guys will become in sync with what you're trying to do, the more fun you will usually have. Together. [00:45:42] Speaker A: All right, so question three. What are your thoughts on using emotes in game? Do you bind them? Do you feel like they give an advantage? [00:45:50] Speaker C: I frequently forget they exist until they're used against me. [00:45:53] Speaker B: But my one that is bound to as soon as I press the emote is Ramus going, okay, I. I bound [00:46:01] Speaker A: them when they were added to the game and have basically not touched them since. So the only one I use is my 2017 misfits emote because I got a swag. The best team EU ever produced, huh? It's not true. [00:46:17] Speaker B: As far as giving you an advantage. They can if it frustrates the enemy to making poor choices. [00:46:24] Speaker A: That being said, focusing on them at all will make you play worse. If you have emote during combat, if [00:46:32] Speaker C: you have literally nothing else to do, you're sitting outside of their tower, sitting there, spamming an emote at them can frustrate people. [00:46:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:40] Speaker C: Do not do it to the detriment of your own play. [00:46:43] Speaker B: It's the equivalent of Moo Alistair just sitting there beating on a bell Cowbell. [00:46:49] Speaker C: Yeah, beating the cowbell. Having singed. Sit there laughing. [00:46:53] Speaker B: Teemo laugh. I think they got taken out. I can't remember. [00:46:56] Speaker C: No Timo staff. Is Lil there? [00:46:58] Speaker A: Either way, we got one more question, Ryder. So let's. Let's answer some questions from 4th wall demolitionist who writes. So I really like Yorick. He's my favorite champion since I started the game, and within half a year, I've gotten him to at least half a million mastery. And I've been playing around with this build a lot. Like, personally, I really like Deathfire on him because I believe he has a weak lane against certain champions and that definitely gives him the extra damage. So I wanted to hear your thoughts on that rune with him. And FYI, his ghouls do benefit from Deathfire. How do you guys feel about Deathfire touch on Yorick? [00:47:33] Speaker B: I've seen a lot of people use it. I think it's good into certain matchups. Like, Grasp is gonna be better in some other matchups. But Death Fire is really good. Same reason that, like a Malphite will run Arcane Comet instead of Grasp. Just for, like you said, the extra damage. [00:47:50] Speaker C: Basically, if you can't benefit from the build up of the other ones as much. Like, he's really good with Conqueror because of how fights go with him. He's very good with grass because of how fights go with him. If you aren't directly benefiting from that frequently, Deathfire touch is a great way to like equalize it with the Pokemon. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Yep. I'm pretty much the same way. I think it's fine. I think it's usually not optimal, but there are matchups where it is. I definitely don't think it should be your default rune. Your default should be Grasp. [00:48:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker A: And then you deviate from Grasp in certain matchups or certain, like, draft situations. Like if they have literally no one tanky on their team, you're not going to get as much out of grasp. And the matchups where Deathfire Touch is best are mostly ranged tops. [00:48:40] Speaker C: Mm. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Which there's a lot of now. [00:48:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you're not going to be able to use Grasp or Conqueror reliably against those. So your choice is a rune that does next to nothing or a rune that does something. So question two. I do have a lot of trouble against Burst Champions like Jax and Warwick, which I've come to the assumption Yorick does fairly poorly against Burst Champs. So I normally play champions like Cho' Gath because he has a lot of cc. So I wanted to ask if there's other characters you would believe are very anti Burst, or should I just learn the matchup against Burst Champs as well as I can? I also have trouble with Burst Champs in general. So honestly, some tips would be wonderful. [00:49:17] Speaker C: I would not call either of those champions Burst Champions. [00:49:21] Speaker A: So Jax and Warwick are able to burst you when you don't understand what they can do. And I think that's what Fourth Wall Demolitionist is running into. Maybe both of them do shockingly high amounts of burst damage within certain windows if they set things up correctly. And if you don't know what they're setting up, you don't know how to respond. To prevent them from being able to complete that setup. I would honestly recommend play a couple games of Jax and Warwick. You'll better understand them and be better playing against them because Yorick actually does well into both of those matchups. Yes. [00:49:56] Speaker C: One of the key ways to find out how to play against Champions is to play them. And you may take you a while to figure out just what the fuck they're doing. And. But you. You have half a million mastery. You're obviously skilled enough to play the game at a decent level. You've played a lot of the champion, so you have a key understanding of at least the lane you're playing in and the ability to pick up how a champion plays. So like every champion that you have trouble playing against in your lane, specifically, go through a couple matches and play [00:50:26] Speaker A: Jackson Warwick, get a friend to play Yorick against them. Especially if that friend is better than you. So you can learn from, oh, this is what they're doing against me. I should do that when I play against those champions kind of thing. [00:50:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Yorick does incredible. As we were sort of mentioning. Yorick does incredibly well against those champions, sort of because of. Yeah. The nuances of his kit. [00:50:50] Speaker A: Jax does eventually outscale him, but Yorick usually takes tower first and then gets outscaled later in the game. [00:50:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Jack's outscales most champions, so that's not a surprise. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Yorick should just be pretty much. [00:51:02] Speaker C: There comes a time when it becomes an infinite smack off where you're doing nothing against each other. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:51:07] Speaker C: But, like, it might be a build case, especially if you're having problems with champions like these. Your champion is designed that you're not supposed to be exploded in one hit in a combo. You're a bruiser. [00:51:20] Speaker A: So that makes me wonder if he might be playing lethality. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Yorick, he's probably going Voltaic. [00:51:26] Speaker C: If you're going lethality Yorick, you need to change what you're building based on who you're playing against. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Lethality Yorick is great when you're against a ranged top. It's not great against Jax and Warwick. You will get destroyed by those champions if you're playing lethality. [00:51:42] Speaker C: But if you're building, like the T force into that stance, sort of this. This bruiser on the side lane. Jax has trouble before he gets to three, four items. Warwick has trouble the entire time. Because you do so much healing. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:01] Speaker A: 6 to 10% of your missing health, plus a flat amount based on your level healing every time you cue them, plus your grasp procs. Because you should be taking grasp in those matchups. [00:52:13] Speaker C: So, yeah, essentially, this sounds like a flexibility issue. You're not changing enough as you're playing between different champions. And it's really costing you stylistically. Yeah. As we said, burst. Burst. Champions are kind of like the thing you do best against because you should just be able to withstand their burst and then win the extended fight over [00:52:37] Speaker A: them because of the healing on your Q. [00:52:41] Speaker C: And they want to fucking sustain damage between you, the maiden, the fucking ghouls. All this combo damage just sits there and whittles them down surprisingly fast. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Yup. It's. Trust me, playing against Yoricks, it is incredibly frustrating taking hundreds of chip damage as I run away because of the ghouls. [00:53:03] Speaker C: Now, there is a secondary thing, which is if you have a specific, like this champion or couple of champions me up when I play York. That is when you find your second person as your counter pick. This is now my secondary champion. I'm building them up. They're gonna be my pick into this one. And you know what? I'm not gonna recommend it, but I'm gonna say it. Maybe take Lucian into the top lane. [00:53:29] Speaker A: Sure, we'll go with that. Guys, this has been episode 539 of the Forwards podcast. Maybe play Lucian top lane in League Classic. I don't think Lucian's actually in League Classic. I don't think so, but it's gonna be fun. We look forward to seeing you there. I've been Jack Soman for my commanding names for Pillow Pet. Have a great night. [00:53:51] Speaker B: Good night. [00:53:52] Speaker C: Good night, everybody. [00:53:54] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Four Wards Podcast. If you want to support the show directly, consider checking out our [email protected] the Four Wards Podcast. And of course, send your questions to the Four Wards podcastmail.com so we can answer them live on the show. That's the Four Wards podcastmail.com.