[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards Podcast.
Hey, what's up?
[00:00:08] Speaker B: It's Eric Bra, voice of Draven Jerks and Velkoz.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: And you're listening to the Four Wards.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Podcast here to help you move forward in League.
Hello and welcome to episode 465 of the Four Wards podcast. I'm your host as usual. I'm Jack Soman and I've got with me three other wards to help you move forward in League of Legends. Freeshooters here.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: Hello.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: We've also got Mike of many names.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: I'm here again.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: And last and certainly least, we've got Crush. You the never present.
[00:01:03] Speaker D: I have returned from not not the dead. I am not dead.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Mostly. Honestly listeners, I just wanted to see Crush's reaction when he was introduced last.
[00:01:17] Speaker D: I was expecting it. I wanted it to be that way. It's fine.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: It was perfect. He still turned bright red. It's great. I wish this was a video podcast so you could see.
Now that being said, even though this isn't a video podcast, we do have a discord where you can come and talk to us and see the clips we post and screenshots we post and whatever other crazy shit we do. Join the discord. Come hang out. It's a great time. Link is in the episode description.
And if you actually do want to see our faces, most of us stream on Twitch. I can be found at Twitch TV jacksonman where it's mostly still just self harming in solo queue.
Freeshooter can be found at Twitch TV free eShooter. That's right. There are three Es in free and he's streaming a whole bunch of Elden Ring stuff lately.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Yeah, with even more to come.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Mike can be found at Twitch TV mikeofmanynames, where he's been streaming. Weird artsy indie platformer.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's called Ni Va. It's gorgeous game by the people who made Gris.
I'm doing a lot of like little indie things. And then league.
These are of course that I think I can stream.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And then of course Crush can be found at Twitch tv. Crush, you. What have you been streaming lately, Crush?
[00:02:41] Speaker D: Nothing. I think I've been busy in real life instead of online for once.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Imagine having a real life indeed. Couldn't be me.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Kids in a family. Not my style.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: All right, of course we got a shout out to Codex, Ninja, Pillow, Pat and Robegon for supporting us at the shout out tier. Thank you guys so much. We could not do this without you.
Now if you want to support the podcast, we are on
[email protected] the Four Wards podcast. $1 a month just tells us that you love us. $5 a month gets you an exclusive feed of some behind the scenes audio of our prep work before each show. Sometimes it's short, Sometimes it's like 30 minutes of us rambling about nothing. It varies and $10 will get you that same feed and you'll get shouted out at the top of the episode.
Last but not least, listeners, couple of you wrote in questions. Thank you to the rest of you. It's a new season. There's all sorts of new shit. If you don't know something and you want to know, write into the 4wards podcastmail.com and we'll answer your question on the show.
That's the whole point of the Q and A section. And if we don't know the answer, we'll look it up beforehand, I promise.
We're at least kind of sort of organized. That's what the patrons get who pay the five dollar tier or more get to listen to is us looking up whatever the hell your questions are so we can make sure we can answer them. That's at least one part of it.
So our actual topics tonight we've got a couple and we're gonna kick it off with something that we kinda glossed over last week because we just didn't have enough information yet. So last week, our big talk about the patch episode, we talked about the new boss added to Summoner's Rift Attacon, but we only really talked about him in the sense of, oh, he's this boss that shows up. And only one version ever shows up because of the way it's designed.
Now they've made some tweaks and we've had more experience. We can actually tell you what the hell he does. So let's talk about him a bit.
Adacon shows up at the 20 minute mark specifically, but he's locked in. I think both location and form are locked in at 14 minutes.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Are you sure? Yes, both are locked in at 14.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: So 14 minutes decides where he will spawn and which version of him will spawn.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: As a note on that, we have a couple more like information things because of amount of games that we've played and the amount of things that we've seen. With Pro, you have to have more than 14 kills. So more than a kill a minute to get the special form, not the second one. Ruin this, the one you're likely to see because everyone is playing really aggressive.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Now to be clear, there is some amount of Damage dealt that is factored into the formula. So you could have a game with less than 14 kills that triggers Ruinous Attacon. If there's a lot of fighting that's just not resulting in kills. There is a meter when you press tab at the top of the screen, that fills up as violence happens on the rift. And if it fills, you get Ruinous Atacon. If it doesn't fill up, you get Voracious Atacon. That's how it works.
So if you're unsure and you're at like 12 minutes and you're like, I wonder which version we're gonna get, press tab, you can look at the meter yourself. Everyone gets access to that information in every game.
A lot of people don't realize that meter exists, so that's why I'm calling it out.
So he spawns it. He determines where he's going to spawn, in which form. At 14 minutes, he can spawn on the top of the map or the bottom of the map in a pit that is created around what used to be that single piece of brush in the middle of the river.
And then you wait till 20 minutes, and then this boss spawns.
Now, if you're lucky enough to be in a lower kill game or if you're playing pro, you will see Voracious Attacon, which I think is actually the stronger of the two by far, in terms of the actual effect. So I want to talk about him a bit first.
This is the one. The highlight, like the. The. The banner, the. The. What people know about him is if you kill him, you get a buff that basically gives you a pseudo ga for the next 2 1/2 minutes.
When you get this buff, you have 2 1/2 minutes where if you are killed, you will almost immediately respawn at the fountain. It doesn't count as an actual kill, and it gives a reduced bounty to your killer instead of the full amount if they had actually killed you.
The intent of this being it encourages you to then get in a fight over an objective or something and make violence happen on the map because the cost to you is lower. It's lower risk.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: You can get into a fight and die twice. We've seen that happen a couple of times.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Yep. If you have teleport or it's a hextech rift, you can get back out very quickly.
[00:08:00] Speaker D: Yeah, Definitely had someone.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: You're like Shen or something.
[00:08:02] Speaker D: Yeah, definitely had someone in a game be like, hey, I killed them and I didn't get. They didn't die. What happened? They just went Back to base. What happened? It's like, yeah, that's the new thing. You get 100 gold. Said you don't get the bounty. He's like, I do.
[00:08:16] Speaker C: I do appreciate that. It plays the GA animation to like make it a little clearer what's happening.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Didn't realize I did that.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: And you can tell who has it because there is a like little tri buff around them.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Yep. They have a visual triangle shaped buff. There's a visual indicator. And if you've noticed your screen flash red, that is your 15 second warning that the buff is about to expire. That is not a glitch. I've literally already talked to someone who thought there was just a glitch in the client that their screen flashed red sometimes. And I was like, no, that's the ATACOM buff expiring.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Which meant they're in games that have low kills. Which means I'm kind of jealous.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: So they did hotfix it. He should show up in around a quarter of your games now in solo queue.
Like they did specifically state that Voracious Atticon should show up more often for us regular players. Which unfortunately has had the side effect of him literally not. There is no Ruinous Atticon in pro.
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Yeah, Okay.
[00:09:19] Speaker D: I was about to ask about that. I was like, wait. Actually pros had a few games. Any. Any awareness.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: That's how we know the 14 kill count thing.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Because that's had a fairly violent game in LEC that had 14 kills by 14 minutes and it was not enough to trigger ruin. Ruinous Atticon.
[00:09:36] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:09:37] Speaker D: Huh.
Okay.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: The casters were very disappointed. They were very excited. Like, is this the game? We're gonna see it? And now.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: I mean this may also just be because they don't have a lot of actual fighting. Fighting in lanes. It's just fighting.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Much more likely to be hundred to zeros.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: So that may also be part of it. Which means that you can like if you are a person who likes to not play aggressively, you can forcibly halt otacon if you really like the other one.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Kind of. Yeah, a little bit. It's. You only have so much control over.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: You only have so much control over your team. That's true.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: We haven't talked about the other part of what this atacon gives. So it gives that two and a half minute respawn. It also gives a permanent for the rest of the game buff. That makes it so everyone on your team gets a bonus 40 gold on takedown.
This wording is important because that means if you assist in a kill you get 40 more gold than you would have gotten without this buff.
That means a normal assist is worth 150 gold split amongst up to four players.
If it's split amongst four players, that assist is now worth 310 gold more than double what it was worth before.
And the killer gets 340 instead of 300.
This adds up fast.
[00:11:10] Speaker D: Mm.
It's so. It's. It's so interesting to me that Buff is so good for any blade scaling comp that they're. It almost feels like they're trying to counteract how heavily early game focused the rest of the changes have been.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:31] Speaker D: Like if you manage to survive and not die for 14 minutes and then your team turns on you can take the team fight at Otacon and and win it.
That's really good news for you.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: Especially because team fights around Otacon really favor the team not fighting Otacon. Like it does a lot of damage to the team taking it if you're not being careful about it.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: So on that note, let's explain what Voracious Otacon does. Then we'll transition to Ruinous and explain what he does and talk about the other version. So Voracious Otacon.
All versions of Otacon have an attack where they just shoot a ball in front of them a few times.
It does a lot of damage. Don't stand in the line of fire. He won't change his line of fire once he starts it. Just step out of wherever that direction is. That is now no man zone.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: It's the Baron Laser. Don't get hit by the Baron Laser.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Basically, Voracious Attacon, this lower kill version that you won't see tons of the time, will also then channel a zone around him that deals damage to anyone close to him. And this thing hits like a truck.
All damage Otacon does will also debuff you, reducing your armor and magic resist. That's why he's so dangerous for the team taking him to get into a team fight. Because you are now fighting the enemy team while at a reduced amount of armor and magic resist because you were fighting Otacon.
It's not really because of the damage he deals himself. Cause as long as you're not standing in the line of those orbs or standing right next to him. In the case of this version of Otacon, his auto attacks don't really do very much.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: It ends up being. I believe it's a static 50 armor and Mr. Reduction. Which means that if you have. If you have little armor and Mr.
It's massive. The amount of reduction that it gives. To give another like little context to this, we. There's another program that went off this week where the team is more than 6000 gold ahead. Couple items up. Going over. They make one mistake at this Attacon Buff get Orianna Ulted and get completely wiped.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah. They had a three man Orianna Ult into Otacon channeling this fuck you melee mode.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Oh yup. Obliterated that team obliterated a literal game winning play.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Like the game didn't end right then, but it swung it from one team to the other in a state that the team that used to be in the lead never recovered from.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: The other team picked up Otacon afterwards it they got to sell their lives for free which saved their ass. And another set of team fights.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: So like this was massive and you need to respect that kind of reduction on it. So Otacon is not, not like Baron in which you can sit there and fight Baron forever unless you have specific champions. There are certain champions that can sit there and fight Attacon forever. Much like there are some champions that can sit and fight Baron forever.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: And that's where I wanted to go with this. So Voracious Attacon is very dangerous to melee. If you are not standing in that melee circle and you're not standing in the line of orbs. He does jack shit for damage. Like arranged champion like let's say Kindred for example, where you have jungler healing but you are outside of Otacon's death zone in the melee. When he channels it, Kindred can probably solo out of con without issue.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: It's slow. Otacon takes about as much time to take as Baron does.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Realistically, like Elder Dragon.
Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't have the specific effects that Baron has where he doesn't have the damage. And Baron takes does reduce damage.
So that's why I think Elder is a more apt comparison. But like a ranged champion can fight voracious Attacon and just keep him at arm's length and never really be in danger of Attacon himself.
Which leads us to the atacon you're most likely to see in the majority of your games. Ruinous Atacon.
Remember last week we had an argument where I was like, attacon doesn't deal any damage. What are you guys talking about? And you were like Attacon fucking chunks.
Ruinous Attacon still has that line of orbs. And then he has an Attack where he spins a series of circles that shrink as they go.
And if you are at the edge of these circles, you will take massive damage.
Giant fuck you to ranged champions.
Trivial for Melee, which is why me, who's been playing jungle, thought that, oh, this is no big deal. He doesn't do any damage because this was the only form of Otacon I was getting. And this form does not threaten melee meaningfully as long as you stand out of the line of orbs.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: And also, if you are continuing to fight him instead of going into like, there will be team fights around Otacon. If you walk away, Otacon will sort of chase you a little bit into the jungle.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Yep. He has abnormally large amounts of patience.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: He will wreck people.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: You would think with a name like Voracious and Ruinous, he would not be very patient. No, this monster is very patient. He will chase you like two pit lengths away from where he spawns before he actually hard leashes back.
[00:17:18] Speaker D: Hmm.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: But yeah. So I realized how this worked when I played a game as a LeBlanc and Attacon took half my life in one set of those spinny circles because I just stood in it not realizing how it worked.
This is like Darius Q. It has a sweet spot. And that sweet spot will fucking destroy you.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Now every ounce of that damage will do the debuff. So even if you're not taking the enhanced damage from the edge, you're still getting reduced.
That is an important point to note.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yes. But the actual damage from the boss itself is negligible for basically any jungler if you're in melee range.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker C: So.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: So there are reason we're talking about for a junglers because junglers get healing from their jungle pets. Just baseline.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: So there.
[00:18:10] Speaker D: Because I have not taken damage from Otacon as long, but I also don't stand in the way of the orbs because that's obvious.
And I've mostly fought Ruinous. So again, like, like Jack said, I don't take damage from him. I just ignore the rings. I just. I just don't step through all of them. And it's fine.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah. As long as you getting hit by one stone melee range of him, it's fine. It's where the rings are dangerous to melee champions is if a fight breaks out while he's doing that ability and you have to walk through the rings to appeal for a teammate or engage onto someone.
[00:18:47] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Now there. There are certain junglers that I think are like, they're immune to him, that it doesn't matter which form it is, you can tank him forever. You can tank the Orbs because you're just not gonna die. He's still a jungle camp.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Volibear being the prime example for me.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Volibear is one of them. Zack is unkillable.
Zach is just unkillable. Recently, as we found out.
Udyr is another prime example of someone that just won't die. And of course, Warwick, like, if you have substantial healing in your kit or substantial shielding in your kit, you're immune to otacon. He doesn't do any damage reduction or he doesn't do any healing reduction. He does moderate large damage. But if you have a good chunk of healing in your kit anyways, you're getting it all back. If you can solo Baron, you can take out Aon with ease.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: It's.
[00:19:46] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: I. I would go so far as to say if you can solo Cloud Drake, you can take out Aon.
Cloudre hits hard.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Now, admittedly, like, it's. It's a thing where you. You will take a long time to do it.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: But you can solo it while your team is doing a threat elsewhere. I would not recommend doing it unless you are absolutely sure no one is coming.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:20:14] Speaker D: Yeah, I. I was very disappointed in one of the games I played that I lost recently.
The enemy Jungler didn't know any of the changes. They're like, oh, the rift is new.
It's like, yeah, welcome to Noxus. So they. They weren't there for the otacon fight, but the rest of the team was, and that was enough to win the fight. So, yeah, unfortunate.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: So we've talked about what he does. What does Ruinous Otacon give you?
Well, there are two parts of what he gives you. One is a permanent buff, and one is a different sort of permanent buff.
Because he gives you a buff that gives you a 20%, 25% increase to all epic monster rewards for the rest of the game. Now, this means any dragon stacks you've already gotten, this means Baron. If you get it, this means Elder Dragon. Although I believe only the burn damage if you get Elder Dragon.
So it just makes taking other epic monsters 25% better.
Not tremendous, but very nice.
Something that we had come up in a game that I played with Mike yesterday is we had a game that, if it had gone longer, we would have gotten four ChemTech Drakes and ruinous otacon.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: If we had gotten would have been obscene.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: It would have taken the healing and shielding effect and the tenacity effect from 24% to 30%.
[00:21:45] Speaker D: Mm.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Like, when you've gotten enough of these buffs, that 25% adds up. That's big. That is at that point, that is making it more powerful than Spirit Visage.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: To be honest. If you are one of the teams that gives away the first two dragons and then goes after the next 3, 4. This buff is probably one of the strongest things in the game. Because when you get stacking dragons that are all the same dragon and you get this multiplied on them, it's really potent. It also multiplies the soul. So the soul is enhanced as well.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Yup. Giant mountain shields, giant amounts of move speed. If you get Cloud Drake with this. Oh, my God.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: It is important to point out, if you have this an Elder, it increases the burn damage Elder does. It doesn't change the execute threshold. The execute threshold does not change, thankfully.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that. That is a horrible. They put that at a hard percentage.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: So the other thing Ruinous Otacon gives, and this is unique to just this more violent otacon, the voracious one does not give. This is when Ruinous Otacon dies, he spawns a shitload of bloody petals immediately.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah, those blood roses.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Bloody roses plants.
When you take Ruinous Otacon, your team should cooperate to hit all of these plants as fast as possible. Because this spawns, I think it's a total of 24 petals worth of plants.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: I think that's right. It's like 18 or 24 or something like that.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Because it's six big and six little ones. Yep.
[00:23:25] Speaker D: Six big. Six little.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: So that is a whole bunch of adaptive force. That is a whole bunch of experience for your team.
[00:23:35] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: And that's the other part of Ruinous Otacon is it snowballs level leads. It snowballs. Just. You get adaptive force at that point. It's like 15 or 20 adaptive force. It's like, oh, yeah, we gave everyone an extra longsword or amp toe.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think he also gives, like, a general buff to the rift where more bloody roses will spawn, because I have seen more of them show up, but that may also just be a consequence of more blood being spilled.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: So both forms of Otacon will spawn roses around the general area of where he spawns.
This is just on top of roses spawning. Where violence has happened, there will just be roses spawning on whichever side of the map he spawns in. It'll just be in the general vicinity of his pit.
[00:24:36] Speaker D: From the wiki, it claims that no new Blood Roses spawn after Otacon spawns, with the exception of the Ruinous death, which tracks that.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: That's consistent with my experience.
[00:24:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Kills all Blood Rose spawns.
[00:24:54] Speaker D: Both of them. Both forms. If either of them, whenever Otacon spawns, no more Blood Roses will spawn. The only exception being if you kill Ruinous, he drops Blood Roses. So that's. That's the only exception.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Interesting. So if you. If you want to farm more damage, you can hold that buff off and get a bunch more kills.
[00:25:11] Speaker D: No, no, because 14 minutes he spawns.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Never mind. Never mind. Unspawn. Not. Not kill.
[00:25:17] Speaker D: Yes. On spawn.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: I said that wrong.
[00:25:19] Speaker D: Okay, we'll have.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Anything else. We want to talk about this new crazy boss.
Any other thoughts?
Because for me, it basically boils down to the actual buffs of this boss are not the game breaking, but the fight over the boss is often going to be.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Yeah, I had a couple rough games this week, and a couple of them we kind of learned a lesson of. Yeah, like you don't need to throw away your game on a. Like, out of conflict. You're not going to win. Like it can.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah, there's.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: There's another caveat here, though.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: I have had games where we have three dragons and the enemy has zero and Ruinous Atticon spawns, and we're not in a position to contest at all. We have two people dead, and my two living teammates will rush over to try to contest it, and now they're dead when the other two respawn, and it's like, great, guys. We just gave them four minutes of tempo.
[00:26:25] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: There is one thing to be incredibly wary of. If you guys have left out of con alone for the five minutes until Baron spawns and he has spawned on Baron's side, this is now a massive tempo swing. If you guys lose a fight and Baron goes down, then Otacon's going down at the same time.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Similarly, if he spawns on the dragon side and the team that is already at two or three dragons takes the Otacon, they probably also get the next dragon. It's in the same vicinity. It can snowball into giving over souls because of that.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:27:02] Speaker D: Yeah. If. If the team that's ahead has two dragons and they fight over Otacon, and when they get a third dragon, that's just what happens.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: This is a. It is a win more buff.
It can be a comeback buff if you play the fight around it really well.
And that's really the key there is you want to play the fight more than you Want to play for the buff?
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:27:28] Speaker C: Now, if it is the like, I'm sorry, I still will. Oh, it's gonna take me a while to get which buff is which. Confused. But the one that gives the respawns voracious. That voracious. Okay. Could be pretty worth to just like try and get your jungler in there for a steal. Because if they get it and get killed for it, they just revive.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Yes, Yep. A hundred percent. It is worth killing yourself to get that.
If you can get the steel off, it is 100% worth. So don't go. Don't go to life if you can't do steel.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: You have to be someone who can reliably ish. Steal. Because the position of where otacon spawns makes it difficult to do what you would do to steal. Baron, for example, where you can, you know, hug the wall and just shoot shit over the wall to steal.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: That's much more difficult. You are committing. So you need to be someone like Nunu Cho'gath Kha'zix who can go in and burst the fuck out of the target to steal.
But yeah, if you steal it cool. You die. You give up. I think it's getting changed next patch to be 200 gold instead of 100. But you give up a small amount of gold and get a permanent buff for your team that the gold loss is made up the next time your team gets a kill, basically.
[00:28:46] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
Like a kill, singular.
[00:28:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: So, yeah, absolutely worth Ruinous otacon. Much less worth committing to try to steal. Even if you get the 25% buff, you're gonna die. And then they're gonna get all the petals anyway. So you're just splitting the bonuses from it. Yeah, generally. Unless it's like the game is in a lost state and you're just going for a Hail Mary.
Don't commit to try to steal Ruinous otacon. Shoot a Jing salt. Shoot a Luxel, but don't actually like, this is not.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: This is not the suicide one.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: Somehow you're that far.
[00:29:31] Speaker D: This isn't really a game ending buff. I don't think like, not like voracious.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Is versus gonna 100 end the game. If you can get Voracious, you can shove two minutes flat. Win the game. Also just saw that in bro.
[00:29:46] Speaker D: The only. The only thing about Ruinous, I think for like, if Ruinous is out, then it means it's been a high kill game. So you either have one team stomping the other, or it's been a Very high kill everyone's, everyone's dead sort of game in. In, like, the latter state, where it's like everybody's fought, everybody's died kind of game those.
Because after they kill the otacon, they stick around in the area to kill the petals.
It gives you a little more time to collect your team to go fight, but not a lot.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: Now if you know it's going down and you have a team that's ready to go in and fight, you can know, hey, they just took otacon. They probably are pretty low, or at least have taken a good chunk of damage. Now is a good time to go in and sweep at them, but don't go in alone again. Yeah, this is one of those. If you can catch them on the back end, catch them in the beginning. This is. This is a team fight sweep.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:30:54] Speaker D: It feels so. It honestly feels a lot like Baron, where Team fighting around Baron, like when you're. When you've been fighting Baron and on an even footing with the other team is a terrible idea, don't do it kind of thing.
Same concept. If you're on an even footing. Ish. You can team fight and win because the otacon debuffs are real, just like the Baron debuffs. So there's that.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: All right, I think we've exhausted our otacon discussion for now.
[00:31:33] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Mike, I'm gonna let you introduce this next topic. Cause you, I think, have the most opinions on it, whereas I'm just like, fuck this. This sucks.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: I have a lot of annoyances about this. But also, we just talked about it and they changed it on us, and now it's a double wrong. So I get to be mad and then mad retroactively.
So we talked about the monetization of not just the Sanctum, but the season pass, the. The little things that you buy and what they did to the crafting shop, etc.
This is also impacted what they've done in this change with what Blue Essence does and with the entire mastery system with the changes. Because as of right now, as far as I'm aware, you can no longer gain chests from mastery, period. There's no system that gives you chests anymore at all. There's no chests within the season pass that used to give you a couple of mastery chests and keys. There's no way to turn in extra points. The entire system around the. The weekly thing has changed to give Blue Essence an orb that gives you a chance to roll in Sanctum and a skin thing, but mostly Blue Essence and xp.
So if you were someone who did the free track of the season pass, it's. It's almost pointless for you. You get. You get very little out of it now at all.
The sanctum is the sanctum. They've. They've changed it from being whatever as orange essence into. Or not orange distance.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: The.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: Whatever RP was into sparks, which are just things you pay for. It's. It's the same monetization thing. They still show everything there. Everything we talked about with that is the same. The mythic shop is now different because there's no way for you to get free mythic essence. The. The mythic blocks just. You can't get them anymore because you don't get box drops.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: And the entire crafting table just get.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Before you would occasionally just get masterwork chests out of your regular chests. It was a rare drop, and that was a source of free mythic essence.
[00:34:08] Speaker A: Or sometimes you just get, like, a mythic shard or something like that. You can. You could get things furthest.
Now I understand why they hid the crafting shop in a corner. Because there's no point in it. You're not getting anything out of it.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: And it's like you.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: If you play and you have capped, and if you're someone who's been playing for a long time and you've spent your blue essence, you have every champion, there's nothing for you anymore on the free track at all. Period.
[00:34:37] Speaker C: And, like, wait.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Okay, go ahead.
[00:34:39] Speaker C: I was just gonna say it's a huge stop into phase two of, like, you still get keys for doing, like, the honor, like, for honor rewards, but with no free chests. And I'm sorry, I am never spending money on a chest, like, regardless of the It's a loot box thing, spending money on it when there's still a chance to get champion shards out of a chest, you buy, like, 100%.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: Sorry. Pointless to be fair on that one. Masterwork chests do not have that. I believe you can buy masterwork chess, but I'm not. Not 100% sure because I will double check right now. Buy More button when you go to masterwork chests. Okay, so that's the.
The idea of the.
The. The keys is to encourage people to buy masterwork chests, which, by the way, cost rp. That's a real money purchase.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Actually, I don't even see masterwork chests up for sale.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: I don't either. But there's a Buy More when you go to the masterwork chest in your ui, so.
[00:35:54] Speaker C: But that just.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: That just takes you to heaven.
[00:35:56] Speaker C: Chest and more.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Why?
[00:35:58] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: There's no way of buying masterwork chests.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: Cool. Nice system. Riot.
Oh, but wait, it gets even better.
We talked just a couple weeks ago about the the season passes being good value for the money because for about $15 worth of RP, you got a guaranteed 25 mythic essence and either 100 mythic essence or a Prestige Skin that you could then spend in the mythic shop to get something cool. Such as a different Prestige skin, a hextech skin, or this new finisher that we generally didn't like when we talked about it.
That's been changed.
They surreptitiously nerfed the paid Battle Pass by all mods now.
Now, instead of getting five sets of five Mythic Essence, you get three. That's right. Only three of these new Ancient Spark Rewards when you complete the stages of the Battle Pass.
Now, there is a straight up Prestige skin at the end. So if you were doing it for the Prestige Skin that that pass offered, that's still there. I'm not gonna judge that one way or the other.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: That's true, actually, depending on which portion of the season you're doing. Because it's only by week, they changed it to these chapter things.
The first chapter.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Has one spike.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: The progression on the pass is separate from the chapters.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: Okay. Thank God.
[00:37:45] Speaker D: Yes. Yes.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: It's not clear. To be clear listeners, the UI around. This is terrible.
It's super unclear. That's why we're having these discussions because we're not even sure about shit. But yes, if you reach level 50 on the battle Pass, which I play a shitload and I am Only level 28 so far.
Just saying.
And I definitely play the most of any of these guys by a lot.
[00:38:15] Speaker D: Yeah. I'm not quite level 11 yet, so. Yeah.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: But if you were buying the pass before. Yep. If you were buying the pass before to get the Prestige Skin, that that pass offered, that's still there. These changes are not going to be a huge downer for you.
There's no longer the option to get 100 mythic essence instead. And those three ancient sparks, by the way, they publish the drop rates for the Ancient Sparks.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: They're atrocious.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: So there. There is a secondary thing that I just looked at because I was looking through these things. There is a way to specifically push forward in the Battle Pass and that is with the objective system that they put into play before so you can actively farm XP to push the Battle Pass quicker.
There's daily events, there's weekly events, there's certain Things to do for each act. This is where. This is where that mastery I was talking about. Whiz. The mastery system that gave you only XP is for battle Pass xp. It doesn't give you anything special if you don't have a pain pass.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Essentially, yes.
But I just want to put it in context. So they give you three sparks for your paid battle pass.
48.78% of the time, that spark will give you five mythic essence.
Another 10.38% of the time, it'll give you 10.
So 59% of the time you're going to get five or 10 mythic essence means the expected value of Mythic Essence from these is 15 or less.
There are some jackpot potentials. You have a miniscule chance. And by miniscule, I mean half a percent to get 50 mythic essence and 2/10 of a percent to get a hundred Mythic Essence.
And then you have a half a percent to get an S tier reward, which is currently the the set skin they're advertising.
And then half a percent to get the other four skins it offers. Your actual odds of getting anything better than 5 mythic essence are like less than 20%.
The expected value on these sparks is really bad. We already talked about that part. But you're also only getting three of them. You are getting less Mythic Essence than you did under the old system as well.
Even if you just take the bogey prizes of the sparks into account.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: It's so frustrating just how much they changed everything up to make it more friendly for you to do stuff in the free track and then immediately killed it.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Yep. These changes are designed solely to increase the amount of FOMO people experience. Because instead of getting guaranteed resources to build towards something, they are given just loot boxes to make you gamble, get jack shit, and then buy more to try to get the thing you want.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: That is another portion of that. With the old system, you had a paid point. I want to get this skin. You get enough of the currency, you buy that skin. If you didn't have that, you could, hey, I'm going to get an orb because I want a chance at getting one of the new skins and you can't get a champion out of it. Hey, I've got plenty of this. I don't need that. I can buy Mythic Essence. I have plenty of boxes. Let me get some keys.
None of that's available anymore. The choice that you used to have, completely gone.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: You'll notice I'm a lot angrier than the other two about this one, this really ticked me off.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: For me, it's just a. Well, I was already not sure I was gonna be spending money on league this year, but this sure as hell cemented it. I will spend my money on other games, which is really aggravating. As someone who has been playing this game for 15.
[00:42:38] Speaker C: I will say I.
[00:42:40] Speaker D: Only spend money on this game when I see a prestige skin come out in the battle pass that I want and I get the pass and I get it just for the prestigious skin. And I don't care about anything else I get that's still here.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:53] Speaker D: Like the.
The spark is offensive, but I can. I can literally just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. And it's. There's been basically no change there. You. The. The pay pass, you still get a bunch of orbs.
I think that's the only reason the crafting shop still exists is those orbs. Honestly.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And the number of orbs is similar to before.
[00:43:19] Speaker D: And I will say that if you pay the battle pass, you get more than you used to because you also get three other skins. Like that's.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: Yes. They're all very similar in theme. They're. They're very. They're not great.
[00:43:30] Speaker C: Or other skin skins.
[00:43:32] Speaker D: The Samir skin's good.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Yeah. As. As a general hold. They're very similar to the original champions design. Their minor tweaks to it. So they're not extravagant skins. They look beautiful in the. In their portraits. Beautiful in the portraits. But their actual like in game models are very similar to their actual models. Because I will say Noxus Champions themed around Noxus.
[00:43:54] Speaker D: Yeah. I would put most of these as the only one that isn't a noxious champion is. Well, okay. Elise sort of isn't.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: But.
[00:44:00] Speaker D: Or not a glass also isn't.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: But yes, we're not.
[00:44:05] Speaker D: Renata is probably the most unique skin of the line. Like she's the one that changes the most. But like, except for the prestige skin, all the skins are like slightly above recolor.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: You know, these are. These are skins that would have been released 750 revolutions perviously.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:24] Speaker D: They could have been released skins basically.
[00:44:26] Speaker A: So you also get a couple of the extra skins. There's one of those is available in the free pass. You get the elite skin.
[00:44:34] Speaker C: I will say.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: Still not happy.
[00:44:37] Speaker C: Yes. I'm not happy about the monetization changes at all. I. No, I do like the whole like challenges to progress the past faster because like I was just grinding out games at the end of the arcane pass to get the prestige Caitlyn skin. I played like 50 arams in a day just to like if actually get over the hump at the end. So.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: And look at the mastery checked and go. And you get the mastery icons. That's 1500, 500 and 100 battle pass things. Yeah. And each level is like 500 or something. So you're gunning through these things if you're actually playing to try and do it. But however, I will say try to.
[00:45:18] Speaker C: It's a pain in the ass to find where these are because I found them once and now I can't find them again because this client's garbage.
[00:45:25] Speaker D: It's just the quest.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: I can tell you exactly where I'm right.
[00:45:30] Speaker C: Okay. Yep. It is.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:31] Speaker D: It's just there. It's where the quest is instead of a little pop up now since this huge dialogue that comes up anyway.
Go ahead. What did you want?
[00:45:39] Speaker B: I was gonna say let me give a pet peeve about that while we're talking about these new missions.
One of the missions, the only mastery missions, by the way, there are three. One of them has reached mastery milestone. Four on a single champion. Cool. I'm fine with that. I assume there is something after that. Maybe not. I don't know. I haven't reached it yet.
One is a recurring one. Reach a mastery milestone on any champion gives a small amount of experience every time you reach a master milestone. That's cool. The other one is complete. 12 milestones from your mastery set.
What does that mean? 12 champions that Riot has arbitrarily decided, I assume based on the same type of algorithm that they do your shop with.
This looks like they want you to progress.
[00:46:30] Speaker D: 12 champions. Who I have the most mastery with.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: It's not.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: It's not.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: Here's why I can say decisively it's not. Because the first one in my list is Lee Sin, a champion I have played maybe three times ever because I hate him.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: So for the most part it's champions you play. And then it's a couple of other champions.
[00:46:49] Speaker B: That's why I think it's the same algorithm as your shop.
[00:46:53] Speaker D: I don't. I don't know for sure. So in my 12, there are two that I basically don't play. It's Lux and Mundo. And even then I have played them and Mundo. I play a lot if I just need to play top laner in the tank roll. But the annoying thing to me is that almost every other one of them is an adc and I don't play anymore for Me.
[00:47:14] Speaker C: They are all ADCs, but two of them are. One is Kog'maw, who I barely play and one is Draven, who I don't play.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: The rest of it to be note. It's a set of 10 champions.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: 12.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: So. No, no, 10. There's 10 champions in the list.
Your goal is to complete 12 milestones. So any of those 10 champions you can hit milestone, whatever. 1, 2, 3, 4. The total aggregate is 12 for it.
[00:47:46] Speaker D: Yeah. So like in my list is Ezreal, Caitlyn, Miss Fortune, Ash, Jyn. I play all five of those ADCs. That's fine. Nocturne, Warwick, Jarvan. Those are my three go to junglers, also fine. And then Lux and Mundo, like what the problem is I don't play ADC anymore. So I have three champions to get milestones on.
So that's kind of unfortunate. But I mean, I could play normals or something, I guess.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: Let me emphasize how much this frustrates me. My list consists of some champions I actually play Udyr, Zeri, Kayn, Volibear.
I play all of those champions regularly.
It has some champions that I play on occasion, like ashe. I'm level seven on ashe. I have 60,000 mastery on her. That's fine.
Then my list has Caitlyn, who I have 10,000 mastery on.
Nasus, who I have 25,000 mastery on.
Samira, who I have 4,600 mastery on.
And again, mastery mostly is a reflection of how much do you play this champion. That's why I'm pointing out these numbers.
Lee, Sin, who I have 1240 mastery on.
And then here's the ones that annoy me the most.
Jhin.
You want to guess how much mastery I have on Jhin? 0,149. I played him exactly one time. I hate playing as that champion.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: I apparently got the best of it all because I have a mostly aggregate thing of things. I play Tom Can Rise, Corki, Morgana, Ash, Lux, Warwick. And then I have Twitch and Jin thrown in there. So there's two champions I might play.
[00:49:53] Speaker D: Yeah. My lowest is Mundo with 2,359. And it's like I don't know why he's there, but I.
[00:50:00] Speaker C: My lowest is Draven at 10K. But it's like mine is if you swap out like Twitch and Draven with like Corky and Tristana. Tristana or Misfortune.
They're like.
It's like, yeah, Misfortune. Tristana and Samira and Nylah are like. And I guess Senna are like the only ADCs missing from my list.
[00:50:23] Speaker B: But let me emphasize how bad this is for me. My list only has four champions that I play regularly who consist of an ad carry, two junglers, one of whom can also go top, and.
No, three junglers, two of whom can also go top.
That's it. That those are the ones I play regularly. What role remaining for the last three years?
[00:50:55] Speaker D: The reason I think it's based on mastery for the most part is that 8 of the 10 is in my top 20.
Like if you were to just look at mastery, you'd. And just gas off the top 10, you'd get five. Okay, five.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Do you want to guess how many of my top 10 mastery champions are listed in my mastery set? 2 just Kane Volibear.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: I think I might also be under that list of.
[00:51:23] Speaker C: Actually, only five of my top ten are.
[00:51:26] Speaker B: But five of my top ten again. What role have I been maining for the last three years? I've been a mid laner.
[00:51:32] Speaker D: Mid.
[00:51:33] Speaker C: Oh, mid. Yeah.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: I've been a mid laner.
[00:51:34] Speaker D: Yeah. That's why I'm like, I have zero.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: Mid lane champions in my mastery set.
[00:51:39] Speaker D: That was weird. Yeah, that's the weirdest part.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: 0 is.
[00:51:45] Speaker D: Is that like, how many mid laners are in your top 10 in mastery? There's quite a few.
[00:51:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: If you count Tristana, then her Yone, Kassadin, Ziggs, that's top 10.
[00:51:59] Speaker D: I would expect three Cassidy to be up there. So something's. Something's wonky. Like something's wonky is yours.
[00:52:04] Speaker A: So like I also.
[00:52:05] Speaker B: If you count it, 15. If you count it to top 15, then I have Malzahar, Lissandra, Silas as well.
[00:52:12] Speaker A: So that's. That's why I don't think this is based on mastery. I think this is based on recent.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: Play, which is mostly LeBlanc for me.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: Also. True. Well, like this.
[00:52:23] Speaker D: That's been in this good chunk.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's mostly corky for me a lot.
Like, I play a lot of war work. I played a good chunk of Morgana Corky. I've been playing quite a bit of Wayne, Tom Kench Rise has been a lot for when I've been doing Aram. So like this has been taking into account a lot of the different games that I play and going, all right, these are the champions you seem to play a lot of. And here's a couple that seem to fit the same bill, which is pretty true.
However, the benefit of this current thing, like we've been thinking about it for a Bunch. It doesn't make you play all of them. It has an idea of what you want to play, but it's going here's the champions that we think you're gonna play or want Mana che. Play them more to get these masteries and you will get your points.
[00:53:14] Speaker C: I've apparently already done one, and I've played three or two matchmade games, so.
[00:53:22] Speaker D: I have five milestones complete already. I don't remember. I don't remember playing Caitlyn.
[00:53:26] Speaker A: I've got two, and I think both of them were from Monegrim.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: I have three and they're all Volibear.
[00:53:33] Speaker D: I have three on just nocturne. So, yeah, I just. I can play nocturne more up. I'll get another one.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: Sorry, I didn't mean to derail us for so long, but anyway, I'm so salty about the Mastery Set milestone because it's so fucked for me.
[00:53:48] Speaker D: My ultimate takeaway from how they've changed the shop and everything is that fuck free to play people. Apparently.
[00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it's. It is an absolute uniform to play. The Battle Pass does a little bit, but it's not really much.
[00:54:03] Speaker D: I feel like the Battle Pass is better. I feel like the Battle Pass is better than it was.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: It gives you less toys.
[00:54:10] Speaker D: That's why with the copy of. As long as you like the theme of the skins of the Battle Pass, then you're good. For me, I only ever got the Battle Pass when I like the prestige skin going in, so. So it doesn't do much for me other than, oh, hey, three new skins. I guess I cool. I can get a Samura skin that I don't have.
[00:54:31] Speaker C: I will be.
Yeah, I will be not spending money on this game. Except in two cases. I like the prestige skin for the Battle Pass or they release a new Ezreal skin because they've got their hooks in me with that. I have every skin. I can't not.
[00:54:44] Speaker A: So actually, I. I have another complaint now, and this will just pop up on me.
With the change to how they're doing mythic essence in the mythic shop. If they get another mythic skin that I fucking adore, how the hell am I supposed to get it?
[00:55:00] Speaker D: Yeah, that's true. There's no way to get mythic essence anymore.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: I have no guaranteed way of getting mythic essence anymore.
[00:55:06] Speaker D: Honestly, I have. The best thing from the sparks you can get is probably mythic essence.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: The higher mythic essence jackpot amounts can be a really good spark reward, but getting them are negligible.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: There have Been in. In the last year, there were two champions of that, that mythic shop that I actively spayed, paid money for to get them because I knew I could get, hey, I can spend 10 bucks here, get a couple of mythic chests, mastery chests and then be able to get some mythic essence out of it. I won't be able to do that anymore. If you wanted something from the mythic shop, you're entirely reliant on that one system from the battle pass.
That's it.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:55:49] Speaker A: And you can't even guarantee getting them.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: You could hit a lucky streak and get all the other skins. Doesn't matter. You don't have the myth, I guess, as you wanted.
[00:56:01] Speaker B: It sucks. I hate it. It's clearly designed to induce a lot more fomo. Let's move on because we spent a long time on this. We're already running almost an hour. And I want to get to a couple of listener questions before we wrap up.
We have a trinket tip and this trinket tip comes from. I was watching LEC's Monday games as we're recording Monday.
If you are recalling and someone is going to use a damaging ability that will deal less damage than barrier can block, if you barrier before it hits you, it won't interrupt your recall.
Examples of when this could be useful would be a support throws an ability at you at the last like one second mark and you want to complete the recall barrier recall completes. This prevents it from stopping you escaping before their teammates can collapse.
As an example, I had no idea.
[00:57:02] Speaker C: You could barrier without canceling recall.
[00:57:05] Speaker D: As far as I'm aware, you can only cast summoner spells that do not move you while recalling. So like trinkets work, you can, you can cast trinkets.
[00:57:12] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:57:12] Speaker C: I knew about trinkets, trinkets and pink Lords.
[00:57:15] Speaker D: I think that any normal champion ability, if it will, will cancel the recall. I'm pretty sure, yes.
So.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: So this is, this is one of the only things you can do. And this also similarly means if you're playing an enchanter with a shield, you can shield an ally to prevent their recall from being interrupted. That we've known. It was mostly the fact that something.
Okay, while he's testing, I'll finish explaining. It's mostly the fact that because you're allowed to cast barrier without interrupting your recall, you can self protect yourself. And this can result in situations where yeah, you blew a 2 1/2 minute cooldown and barrier, but it saved your life because it meant you got away before their teammate arrived. And killed you.
[00:57:59] Speaker D: The cutest way I'm aware of doing this is being Rakan and jumping to Xayah with the I think battle dance is the name of it. And giving both of you a shield and you both complete the recall.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:58:12] Speaker D: That's the cutest way I'm aware of doing it.
[00:58:14] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: Yep. Now important to note, if the damage the ability does is more than the barrier, you'll still get your recall interrupted. If the ability applies any form of CC that prevents movement abilities, your recall will be interrupted. So that means stuns, roots, grounding suppression, knock ups. Any of those.
Any and all of those.
[00:58:38] Speaker A: But items do not work.
You can't do block into the Iron Solari and back.
[00:58:45] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: I wanted to check that only.
[00:58:48] Speaker D: Yeah, it's fair. It's only summoner and trinkets is the only things that I'm aware of. Do not interrupt me.
[00:58:53] Speaker C: And control boards.
[00:58:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:58:57] Speaker D: Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. Some weird exception.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: It is weird that control words are an exception when they are a regular item. Yeah.
[00:59:05] Speaker C: I only know that because oftentimes I'll be like backing in a bush and be like oh, I need to free up a slot. Control word.
[00:59:15] Speaker A: That's really smart.
[00:59:17] Speaker B: Okay, so let's get to some listener questions. We got a quick one from Codexninja so we're gonna start there. She writes. Hey Wards. Hope Attacon is treating you well. There was a spirited debate in the discord this past week about how bot lanes cries foul being weak sided going 1:6 with the experience range being extended. Do you think people will adapt better to minimize losses this season? So they. No, for context they increase the range at which you can be from a minion and still get experience from its death.
[00:59:51] Speaker C: But I'm not getting gold. What is the worth of XP if not getting gold? Ooga booga. Kill cannon. Die for cannon.
[00:59:57] Speaker B: That's why I don't think it's gonna make a difference.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: Specifically in bot lane. It's gonna matter a lot more than in top or mid because bot lane cares more about gold. That's why there's two of them there.
[01:00:09] Speaker B: And specifically in like lower to mid elo in high elo and pro play. I do think it is going to result in less people taking unnecessary risks.
[01:00:20] Speaker C: Honestly.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: But we're not there.
[01:00:22] Speaker C: It's very minor but it will help supports like very minorly of they're walking back from warding and they might get XP a little bit like sooner because they walk in range for a minion dying when they might not have Previously.
[01:00:38] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure the AD carries are going to be a little sad. They're going to have to split some experience occasionally that they didn't before because.
[01:00:44] Speaker C: Of that supports other carries until level six anyway. Like.
[01:00:48] Speaker B: I know, I know, I know. But AD carries have main character syndrome.
[01:00:52] Speaker C: True.
[01:00:54] Speaker B: All right, any other thoughts about the experience range change? It was a pretty minor change.
[01:01:00] Speaker D: No, it's. People still don't know how to minimize losses. It's.
Yeah, any lane.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: This is a higher tier thing. If you're not in the higher tiers of play, it's less likely to matter.
[01:01:14] Speaker B: And I just want to put in context what the range change was. They changed it from 1400 units to 1500 units.
[01:01:21] Speaker D: One Teemo's length.
[01:01:23] Speaker B: Yes. Ezreal Q is 1200 units.
So it went from slightly beyond an Ezreal Q to slightly further beyond an Ezreal Q.
[01:01:36] Speaker A: I love how we did some measure things in Teemos.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: Yes.
Timo, from one end to the other is exactly 100 units.
That's why he's the unit of measurement.
[01:01:48] Speaker A: Perfect.
[01:01:49] Speaker B: Okay, our next set of questions, and probably the last questions for tonight come from Big Tuna, who writes. Hi, Wards. Big Tuna here. Longtime listener, first time writing in. I've been playing league off and on since 2012. I mostly play in the mid lane, but I'm a secondary jungler. I'm a silver gold player and I always enjoy the helpful content y'all provide. Jax keeps asking for questions, so I figured I'd ride in and help out. I have a couple of random questions. Question one, what happened to bomo and Crush you? I'm only recently coming back to the podcast and I haven't heard them.
[01:02:20] Speaker C: Yeah, Crush, what happened?
[01:02:22] Speaker A: Where did you hide, Bow?
[01:02:25] Speaker D: I hid BOMO in California. I don't know.
[01:02:29] Speaker B: As far as we're aware, bomo is safe from the fires. But yeah, he just. He. He stopped playing league so much. He started doing other stuff and just transitioned out of the league scene pretty much.
[01:02:40] Speaker D: I suspect that he tried going harder on, like, the competitive scene and then found it wasn't for him and dropped off entirely. Because that's kind of what happened to me too, let's be honest. But for me, I've also just been busy with holidays and shifting, changing job, which takes time, and I didn't feel like I did not have energy to come in and talk for an hour and a half.
[01:03:07] Speaker B: And you also just hadn't been playing league much, so you didn't feel like you had much to contribute. Yer Crush is still around. We love Crush. He's always welcome back anytime he feels like he has the time or energy to talk or has something he wants to talk about.
Momo is welcome back if he ever wants to come back to League. But it's gonna go.
[01:03:28] Speaker C: Same goes for like basically all of our past hopes.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: Very few of our past hosts are not welcome back across Mark where you're still alive out there podcast.
We hope to have him back someday but because he still has the best voice.
But yeah, it's. It's.
They're doing all right. Crush is still around. Bomo isn't. But as far as I'm aware he's doing alright in his personal life.
Question 2. What are the rarest skins that y'all have seen in game or own or ones that you wish you owned? I'm curious to know how rare some of my skins are and to see if they're on Yalls lists. So let's start with what's the rarest skin each of you guys own?
[01:04:13] Speaker D: Pulsefire. Exactly.
[01:04:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:04:17] Speaker D: Got it out of a chest.
[01:04:18] Speaker A: I have the original. They changed the name of it. It is still one of the rarest skins to have the original firm of the world's 2012 ribbon skin used to be something different. It's in the like rarest top 10 skins total.
[01:04:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:04:34] Speaker A: So it is. It is obscenely rare and I still have it.
[01:04:41] Speaker B: Free. What about you?
[01:04:43] Speaker C: I don't know which of my skins are considered rare so give me a minute, I'm looking it up.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: All right, fair enough.
I believe I have straight up the rarest League of Legends skin because I own Pax Jacks.
[01:05:00] Speaker C: Oh, I was gonna say Silver kale. Okay.
[01:05:02] Speaker B: Pax do have silver kale pack Silver.
[01:05:06] Speaker D: Is also apparently very rare.
[01:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah. The original versions of these.
[01:05:09] Speaker D: The original version, yeah. Because neopaxilver I've seen but yep.
[01:05:13] Speaker B: And I think there's a Neo Pax Jax now as well.
[01:05:16] Speaker A: Which Pax Jacks is one of the skins that I wish I had.
So Cardboard dude Samurai. It's amazing.
[01:05:22] Speaker B: Yup, yup. I use it every time I play Jax and always have. I have that skin because my sister in law went to PAX that year and she got a code while she was there.
Yeah. I live in Washington. Pax is like in my backyard so I could have gone and I wish I had cuz I think that was the year that there was esports there but I didn't get to.
Oh well missed opportunity.
But I got the skin.
[01:06:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm looking. I like don't Think I have any, like, super rare. Like, I don't know how rare. Like, can you get, like, R.
Oh.
[01:06:12] Speaker A: Probably if you have. Before season four, it is considered in the top tier of rare skins.
Silver K. Any. Any of the old things that were, like, major things. Silver kale, King Ramis, Judgment Kale, which I also have.
Black Alistair. There's the Tristana skin that has the pink hair.
[01:06:36] Speaker C: Oh, Riot Girl. Tristana.
[01:06:37] Speaker A: I do have that.
[01:06:39] Speaker C: So that's probably that Earthquake's pretty wear.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: Even though there's no way that Riot girl is actually that rare. It's old, but it was given away for free to millions of players.
[01:06:49] Speaker C: That's what I thought. Yeah. Like, I mean.
[01:06:53] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:06:53] Speaker C: Then it's probably just my earliest, like, world skin, which is, I think Worlds 2013 thresh is the one I have.
[01:07:03] Speaker B: I just. I'm looking at the list and, like, I have Pax Jacks, I have Silver Kayle, both of whom are some of the rarest skins. Silver Kale came from the physical collector's edition of League of Legends, by the way.
[01:07:16] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: That's why it's so rare.
[01:07:20] Speaker D: Why is Medieval Twitch rare?
[01:07:22] Speaker C: Because it's Blue essence?
[01:07:25] Speaker D: No, it's honor.
[01:07:27] Speaker A: It's honor.
[01:07:27] Speaker B: It's. It's from Honor is why there's a lot of people who never hit Honor five. Well, I have that one, and yeah.
[01:07:33] Speaker D: I have to be on the roof one.
[01:07:35] Speaker B: I do too. I get them all every year, but.
[01:07:38] Speaker D: I have seven of them.
[01:07:39] Speaker C: I didn't get them last year, but literally because I didn't play enough.
[01:07:43] Speaker B: Right. That's the thing is you have to play a lot and not get punished to get the honor.
[01:07:49] Speaker D: Oh, hey, I could get an auction and a Malzahar skin. I didn't.
[01:07:52] Speaker A: If you played in season one and you did anything with the.
Oh, the old judgment form where you got Judgment Kayla's a reward that's up there.
[01:08:03] Speaker B: I have that one too.
[01:08:05] Speaker A: I do as well.
[01:08:06] Speaker B: Oh, hey.
[01:08:07] Speaker D: I have Championship said. That's neat. This is a rare one.
[01:08:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So, Victoria, there's a lot of rare skins, but the. The biggest answer is just the ones that were time limited and could not be gotten through any means afterwards.
[01:08:21] Speaker C: Yeah. So probably technically my rarest is Victorious Siver, because that's the earliest Victorious gonna have.
[01:08:27] Speaker A: Also one of mines.
[01:08:29] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:08:29] Speaker D: I don't have that one.
[01:08:30] Speaker B: Early victorious skins are gonna fit in that bill.
[01:08:36] Speaker D: Didn't realize Draven. Draven was a. Was rare skin.
[01:08:39] Speaker A: Is it? Oh, I got that too.
[01:08:41] Speaker C: I actually know someone who I used to Play clash with him where he owned every skin in the game.
[01:08:49] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:08:50] Speaker C: And actually reached out to Riot after, like, he acquired the last skin and because the only one he was missing, I think was like was King Ramis and they gave him King Ramus because he had every other skin.
[01:09:02] Speaker B: I'm so sad that I missed King Ramus. I literally did not learn that League of Legends exist existed until like a week after the. The beta that King Ramus was given out as a part of.
[01:09:12] Speaker C: Damn.
[01:09:13] Speaker B: I missed it by literally like a week or two. It's brutal. I could have had that. I was literally a Dota player at the time. I would have transitioned over to League to try it out the moment I learned about it. If I had learned about it in time.
Oh, wow.
[01:09:28] Speaker C: That was someone. He abused the like Orbit Chess system by like changing to a different region and purchasing cheaper currency to like. He said it was a costume. Like about $1,000 to get every skin in the game.
[01:09:41] Speaker B: Jesus Christ.
[01:09:43] Speaker A: That's relatively cheap.
[01:09:44] Speaker B: There was a point in time. There was a point in time where if you owned every skin, you could then just reroll three skin shards to get every new skin.
[01:09:51] Speaker C: Yep. And that's what he did.
[01:09:53] Speaker B: I think they've changed that too. So you can't do that anymore.
[01:09:57] Speaker C: Damn.
[01:09:59] Speaker B: I think if you have a certain amount of skins remaining that are like the only ones that would be eligible, it just doesn't let you reroll anymore. I don't know where that threshold lies, but I know they changed it. And a couple of people that I used to talk to were very upset about that change.
[01:10:15] Speaker C: Understandable.
[01:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
Alright, let's. Let's get the. The last question from Big Tuna done, which is, how do y'all feel about the recommended items? I usually go off of that as I don't have the knowledge that y'all do on what items to take at what point in the.
[01:10:40] Speaker A: They're fine.
[01:10:41] Speaker C: Yeah. I honestly use them most games just for like, I like the convenience of. Even if I'm not buying one of the three, I can probably click on one, click on its component and get to the item I want faster than I can scrolling through the big list.
Because ADHD bring over.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: There's. There's a couple of instances in which they're like, this is just wrong. But that's a general assumption from most people where we disagree with a lot of what other people are playing.
[01:11:11] Speaker C: Also, usually if you're playing a champion that can go in multiple roles, specifically if your champion can ever go support your recommended items are probably gonna be wrong because it's just gonna be recommending you support items all game long.
[01:11:23] Speaker B: Yep.
My experience with recommended items before I just stopped using that tab entirely was about half the time it's going to be exactly correct. These are the items you should be buying.
I'd say probably 90% of the time it's going to be in the ballpark of correct. Like it's not gonna lead you astray, but it might not be optimal.
And then there's the edge cases that they just mentioned where occasionally it will just be recommending shit where you're like why the fuck would you ever build this?
In this situation.
[01:12:04] Speaker C: I tend to find.
[01:12:05] Speaker B: Stems from the recommended system pull not understanding the situation correctly. Like yeah, not realizing you're not a support.
[01:12:11] Speaker C: Yeah like the Also I tend to find the later the game goes the least useful is like for item like your last two items, it's generally not going to be ideal. Like it might be like okay, like one of these three is correct, the other two are not correct. Do not build them.
[01:12:28] Speaker B: Mm.
Like when it tells you to build a Banshees because it's good against Caitlyn and you're like no, it blocks her.
[01:12:38] Speaker C: Alt tells you to build a Zhonya's because it's good against Caitlyn and I'm like, no, it blocks her old I get what you're going for, but no.
[01:12:49] Speaker B: Caitlyn knows what this Caitlyn, if she knows what she's doing, it will fuck you completely if she is in trap range of you when you use it.
[01:12:56] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:12:57] Speaker A: But I mean, as is obvious, just play Lucian in the top lane and then no matter what the recommended system is, you'll be fine. He'll win the game easily.
[01:13:08] Speaker B: There it is. All right, guys, this has been episode 465 of the Four Wards podcast. I've been Jack Soman for Crush you for free shooter for Mike of many names. Yeah, that's right. I switched the order back. Hope you appreciate it.
[01:13:24] Speaker A: I'm wounded later. Good night everybody.
[01:13:30] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the four Awards podcast. If you liked what you heard and you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com the Fourwards podcast to give us some support. We appreciate you and of course listeners. Please don't forget to write your questions into theforwards podcastmail.com so we can answer them on the show.
