The Four Wards Podcast - Episode 464: Welcome to Noxus

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards Podcast. [00:00:07] Speaker B: Hey, what's up? It's Eric Bra, voice of Draven Jerks and Velkoz. And you're listening to the Four Wards Podcast here to help you move forward in league. Hello and welcome to episode 464 of the Four Wards podcast. I'm your host as usual. I'm Jack Soman and I've got with me three other wards to help you move forward in League of Legends. Free shooters here this week. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Hello, I'm back from Holiday Hell. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Yay. Holiday Hell is over. [00:00:55] Speaker C: Yay. [00:00:57] Speaker B: We've also got Mike of many names. [00:00:59] Speaker D: For the first time in over a month, we are Four Wards. [00:01:03] Speaker B: It's true. Thank fuck the holidays are over because last but not least, we've certainly also got Pillow Pat. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Hello. Hello. [00:01:13] Speaker B: All right guys, we are the Four Wards Podcast. We do have a podcast, Discord. Come join the Discord. Come hang out, come play games with us, talk about whatever. It's a great time. Link is in the episode description. We also stream on Twitch. I can be found at Twitch TV Jacksoman, where you can watch the Curse Never End. Free Shooter can be found at Twitch TV Freeeshooter. There are three E's in Free still playing that Elden Ring crafted items run. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm at the point where it's actually starting to get hard again. It was the curve of it was easy early or sorry, difficult early. Pretty easy mid starting to get hard again. [00:01:54] Speaker B: Fair enough. Pillow Pet can be found at Twitch TV Pillowpet and Mike has changed his Twitch handle to match his everything else. He is now Twitch TV mikeofmanynames. Much easier to find. All of those links are of course in the episode description and we gotta give a shout out to Codex, Ninja, Pillow Pet and Robegon for supporting us at the shout out tier. Thank you guys so much. We could not do this without you. We appreciate you. Now if you want to get shouted out or just support us in general, head over to patreon.com the 4wards podcast. $1 a month just tells us that you love us. $5 a month gets you an exclusive feed of some behind the scenes audio of our prep work before each show. Sometimes it's actual podcast planning, sometimes it's just talking about games done quick runs that we liked and $10 a month will get you that feed and the shout out in the main show. Last but not least, listeners, I didn't get very many new questions this week. We got one. You're kind of off the hook this week because it's a patch week and we have way too much other shit to talk about. But I expect to see that inbox bursting at the seams with questions about the new season. Next time we record, write in to the 4wards podcastmail.com so we can answer your questions on the show. Alright, so As I said, patch 25S1.1 is here. That's right. They've completely changed how they number and name patches for the first time in 13 years. 12 years. [00:03:39] Speaker D: I hate it. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Season two when they switched to the current naming scheme that is no longer current. [00:03:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I dislike. [00:03:47] Speaker D: I hate it. [00:03:50] Speaker B: It's. If they stick with this multiple seasons per year scheme for several years, I think I will stop hating it. But right now I'm like, change, change. [00:04:04] Speaker D: Why did they put it at patch 25 where it. [00:04:06] Speaker C: Because it's 2025. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Because it's 2025 that I actually don't hate. [00:04:10] Speaker C: I don't know that. That. That's the part I don't like. I don't like S1 1. [00:04:15] Speaker D: Like they added 10 on it. I would have been profined with 15 because it is the 15. [00:04:21] Speaker B: But it is the 15th season. But it's fine. It's. If the phone companies can rename their phones to match the year. Cough Cough. Samsung Cough Cough. Then Riot can name their patches that way. It's fine. So there's a lot of changes. Let's start with the most visually apparent, the most obvious change, which is that Summoner's Rift has changed visually a lot. Yeah, it looks like small mechanic changes on the Rift. It is gross. Now Noxus has invaded Summoner's Rift. So this is a full visual revamp of how the Rift looks and feels. The turrets are now like animated cannon things, which I actually kind of like that because before they were just statues that shot magic at you. We're not ending story. We don't need statues that shoot magic. [00:05:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I like the turrets. It's just the biggest thing for me is just like the color and like the vibe of it. [00:05:34] Speaker D: It's very brown. [00:05:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's very proud. [00:05:38] Speaker B: It looks like an Xbox 360 era third person shooter. [00:05:42] Speaker C: Yes. [00:05:42] Speaker D: Oh my God. Yes, it does. You. You. You're pulling up the old lore. [00:05:49] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker B: When everything was chest high, walls in different shades of brown, which, to be fair. [00:05:57] Speaker C: Okay. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Zero punctuation, Noxus. [00:05:59] Speaker D: Yeah. Although speaking of Knox is in there. If you look at the very top of the map in the top, mostly the top right, you can actually see the path down into noxus in the background. They've done a very good job of making the background visually stunning. Yeah, it's. It's very good looking. The color palette that they decided to make, it kind of ruins it. Thankfully, the jungle is still pretty great, so I don't have to do that. [00:06:29] Speaker B: The blue quadrants are. The red quadrants, not so much. It's got trees. So, yeah, huge, huge visual revamp. It's. It's. Everything has changed in some way. They did keep. Obviously the river is still. The river. It's still blue water. They didn't like make it like poison water or something like that. [00:06:53] Speaker D: They didn't do a green sludge, etc. Yeah. [00:06:56] Speaker E: Yep. [00:06:56] Speaker B: And they did not make any map layout changes. All of the terrain, all of the bushes, everything is the same as last season with one exception that we'll get. [00:07:08] Speaker C: To later, which means the river is still lower and will make your skill shots miss. [00:07:13] Speaker D: Yes, it is. And it's not as visual. That actually is less visually apparent that there is the little ramp into the river. [00:07:21] Speaker C: Had the opportunity to fix it, this would have been the time to fix it. [00:07:26] Speaker A: I'm hoping this might be a continued theme of changing the map based on a area. Because I'm all about Freljord. Bring me the snow map. [00:07:36] Speaker D: Yes, that is a speedy thing. [00:07:39] Speaker B: That is the intent. These updates will remain through season one, which is eight patches, so four months. With another new journey coming in season two, they are planning on revamping the map again. At least visually. We don't know beyond that. [00:07:55] Speaker C: Okay. Hey, Riot. I have a money making idea. At the end of the season, sell the current skin. So that way players can buy and just choose to use whatever skin they want. But do it like after the season ends or something. Or like at the end of the year, be like, hey, did you like any of these? Buy whichever one was your favorite and you could use it if they're gonna. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Do that because it's a lot of maintenance work that I know. [00:08:20] Speaker D: However, if they wanted to do it and be like this can't be done. In ranked games, you must use baseline skin and ranked and let you do whatever you want. In normal. That'd probably be a better solution. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Nah, they should just make all the fucking maps available and maintain them. They have the money, but they won't. Okay, we talked about the visual changes. There's a lot of system changes too. Who wants to talk about turrets? [00:08:48] Speaker C: I will, because I like this change. Okay, so it's. I'm gonna talk about. Is it just the Nexus turrets part. [00:09:00] Speaker D: Nope, there's more. [00:09:01] Speaker B: There's two turret changes. [00:09:03] Speaker C: Okay, I'll talk about the Nexus turrets because I can't find where in the notes the other changes because it's very confusing and I don't have a fucking sidebar anymore. So the Nexus turrets. This is a change I really, really like. After Nexus turrets are destroyed, they will now respawn three minutes later, similar to how inhibitors respawn now. Nexus turrets respawn. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I love this instead of five. [00:09:29] Speaker C: Yes, true. I love this change because so many times I've been in games where enemy team gets an early lead, they push in, take Nexus turrets, but can't end. And it kind of feels like you're starting to come back. The game is actually winnable, but you're just trapped in your base because they like, if one person backdoors, if you make one mistake, the game just ends. And like. Yeah. [00:09:55] Speaker B: And to be clear, in my experience, there's only two ways that losing your Nexus turrets ever goes where you defend your base afterwards. Either your team holds and starts taking control of the game, in which case this respawns removes that annoying back door pressure. Because the back door is not like it's an annoying rat way to play the game when you're like, oh, we can't win anymore, but we have their Nexus open, so we just keep constantly looking for back doors. It's really annoying, but most of the time, cool. You fought them off your Nexus. There's still a reason they got to your Nexus. They just win the next fight and the game ends. And this change never impacts that. [00:10:37] Speaker C: Yep. [00:10:38] Speaker B: So it only impacts games where it's removing the annoying kind of gameplay that those games can lead to. [00:10:49] Speaker D: The Trendere has Solo backdoored you by 20 minutes, taken everything in there, but only has one lane down. You've defended it successfully, and now there's an open pathway forever. Or the sound the scientist. Yeah, this. This is. This is one of the healthiest changes I have seen and I am yet to see a case where it has mattered because we haven't had that split push happen yet. [00:11:16] Speaker A: So my question, like, I really haven't got to see it because my games close out too quick. So I don't really haven't seen a tower come back yet. Does it give the same amount of gold each kill or how does that work? Do you guys. [00:11:30] Speaker B: I think so. But also, Nexus turrets aren't worth very much gold. [00:11:33] Speaker A: I think they're worth, yeah, 50 or something. [00:11:35] Speaker D: I think it's. But it's not that much? [00:11:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I think they give it again. But the gold is immaterial at the point of the game where you're killing Nexus turrets. [00:11:47] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's like, this isn't a situation that comes up often, like, with how, like, it maybe came up, like, five times for me last year total, but. [00:11:57] Speaker B: It definitely came up more than that for me. But it was, like, out of 300 games, maybe 20 of them, where there was a Nexus turret defense that the game lasted three minutes past that. [00:12:08] Speaker C: I was gonna say, you play a lot more games than me, though. [00:12:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:11] Speaker D: I saw it happen. [00:12:12] Speaker B: It's like, less than 10%. [00:12:14] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. [00:12:16] Speaker D: But most of the time, those games were. They would refuse to end the game, and then one by one, they would shuffle in, trying to get the backdoor kill as we slowly killed them and then won. This may prevent that from happening. [00:12:32] Speaker C: Yeah. Because it's also a motivator for, hey, we took their Nexus turrets but didn't end. Let's group up and push an end before those things respawn, like, so it's. [00:12:42] Speaker A: A pretty short, like, respawn, too. [00:12:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Three minutes is fast. [00:12:49] Speaker D: You have pretty much enough time to, if you get them, go back, reset, do one push. [00:12:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:57] Speaker E: Yep. [00:12:58] Speaker B: All right. So, Mike, you're. You're familiar with the other change. You want to talk about the other? [00:13:02] Speaker D: I'm incredibly familiar with the new change, and I like it a lot. To start with, the top and mid towers, they had extra damage fortification. It used to be 85. Now it's 50%. This was the. We're tired of lane swaps happening, guys. Come on. For pro change that really, really affected everybody else. [00:13:27] Speaker B: They're hoping that feats of strength are enough to deter lane swaps is why they're reverting this part. [00:13:32] Speaker D: And it seems with the amount of potency, the objectives are now, like, you want to group up to try and do those things? We'll get to that in a moment. The heat damage amp for, like, however long a turret attacks a single target, that's a champion. It gains increasing damage stacks. It just got bumped up. It went from 220 to 250% increase big. [00:14:00] Speaker B: And it lasts longer. [00:14:01] Speaker D: Yeah. And it lasts five seconds now from three, which is the time it takes. Like, that is how long you have to not be being shot before it reverts back to its base. [00:14:13] Speaker E: Yep. [00:14:14] Speaker A: That's a long time. [00:14:15] Speaker D: It's a long time. And it has gotten so many kills recently. There are a lot of people who think they can get away with next to no health that can't anymore because it just does more damage. Or they try and get into a cheeky fight and the dive goes horribly wrong. And now the turret actually does some damage. [00:14:37] Speaker B: It's so much more dangerous to turret dive. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Someone who has CC now like 10% is no small number when it comes to like a buffing damage on one shot. [00:14:47] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Something that does hundreds of damage a shot. [00:14:50] Speaker D: Yeah. It's per stacks and it's five stacks. So it's dangerously strong. If you cannot get a kill quick, don't go for a tower dive. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Alright. A couple other changes they made. I'm gonna summarize these because they're complicated. Minions have been made generally tankier for melee minions, generally slightly squishier for ranged minions and have also had their Their damage changed to scale with their health. So the Minions do more damage. And the first canon Minions now on wave four instead of wave three. [00:15:43] Speaker C: Wait, that's huge. What? [00:15:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:47] Speaker D: Yes. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Canyon Minion scaling is now capped. Previously cannon Minions would continue gaining AD for up to seven days. Yes, you heard me correctly. [00:16:02] Speaker D: Actual time. Days. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Yes. Effectively uncapped. They would continue gaining AD no matter how long the game went. It's now 90 minutes. It's still effectively uncapped for almost any game. [00:16:15] Speaker D: How many games have you seen? Hilarious. [00:16:17] Speaker B: So I wanted to say it. [00:16:18] Speaker C: I. I have. [00:16:19] Speaker B: I just. [00:16:20] Speaker C: I've seen a YouTube video of a game where like it was like both teams were like holding it hostage and not letting it end. And it was like a two and a half hour game. And it got to the point where they physically could not clear the minions anymore. Like they had Nasus and Karthus like just standing in a wave trying to. And they could not stop the Minions ending the game. [00:16:41] Speaker D: Pretty much the only champion that could indefinitely kill Champion. Their minions would be Veer, wouldn't it? [00:16:49] Speaker B: Vhagar Aurelion Sol would be the other one that comes to mind. [00:16:51] Speaker D: Oh yeah, yeah. He just infinitely. Eventually it becomes die. [00:16:57] Speaker E: Yep. [00:16:59] Speaker B: So yeah, that's. They also changed Minions give experience at a slightly longer range. It's now 1500 instead of 1400. And everyone gets 20 more gold because you start gaining gold 10 seconds sooner. [00:17:16] Speaker D: 0.4 gold. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yes. 20.4. All in all, these changes just kind of make Minions more able to push on their own and less able to like stack up. The intention of this is to make it less likely for you to have double and triple stacked waves. [00:17:46] Speaker D: And I've seen that pretty true. It's been very rare to see a true double Triple stack wave. They are pushing significantly faster. [00:17:57] Speaker A: One thing I would add to this that we didn't mention was the Minions now do more damage to champions by only 5%. But with their damage increase, that's going to be quite a bit. So if you're trying to take a trade in a Minion Wave, you're gonna notice you're gonna be getting hit like a truck. [00:18:15] Speaker B: It literally killed me a couple hours ago. [00:18:18] Speaker D: Yeah. Yep, it did. [00:18:21] Speaker B: I thought I survived the fight, and then, like, instead of ending it with 10 HP, I died to the Minions. [00:18:28] Speaker D: I've actually had that happen to me too. Yeah, now that I think about it. [00:18:32] Speaker B: So the other. The other, like, system change, they changed. That I think is kind of tied into this a little bit, is bounties. Basically, they made it so that negative bounties trigger easier. So if you're underperforming, you stop being worth gold a little bit sooner. But they also made it so it's less. Less scaling based on kills specific. This should still mean if you go like05, you're worth nearly nothing. But it mostly just means that when you're at like 01 and 02, you're worth slightly less, which is big. It should, in theory, help mitigate the one idiot who feeds problem in practice, it hasn't so far. And we'll get to why momentarily. Mike, you wanted to talk about the changes that the. The map has resulted in spawns. Do you want to do that after we talk about the new boss or before? [00:19:43] Speaker D: So this is. We can do it before, because I don't have to exactly discuss the boss. Because they have changed the timing on spawns for certain things because of. They've added another mini boss that has fundamentally changed when certain things appear. They've pushed backed Rift Herald by. I think it was two minutes. It's at 16 now. [00:20:06] Speaker E: Yep. [00:20:07] Speaker D: Yeah. They've delayed Baron Buff till 25 minutes instead of 20. Doesn't matter for most everybody. And here's the. The big one with that tie to Baron. Any of the specialty jungle camps, Your red buff, your blue buff, your Rift Scuttler. Those AOE buffs got delayed with Baron. They are tied to Baron buff, so the bonuses won't be felt across the map until then. Which means you're going to be donating the extra buffs over to one individual for another five minutes on things, which is another two sets of spawns. [00:20:54] Speaker B: It's. It's one spawn, typically, and it means. [00:20:59] Speaker D: You have a lot longer to take Rift Herald because the new boss does not Stop Rift Herald from spawning. [00:21:06] Speaker E: Yep. [00:21:09] Speaker B: All right. With that, let's talk about this new boss. Riot has added a 20 minute boss spawn. His name is Attacon. [00:21:20] Speaker C: I immediately my like minor dyslexia or whatever. Every time I read it, I think someone misspelled Akshan. Every time. [00:21:29] Speaker D: Oh, you do that? I think Otokan. [00:21:31] Speaker C: Every time when I hear it, that's when I think. But when I read it, I read it as like, what's a word? Where to spell Akshan. [00:21:37] Speaker D: Oh yeah. [00:21:38] Speaker B: All right. So Attacon spawns at 20 minutes. Where he will spawn depends on which side of the map has had more kills. [00:21:50] Speaker D: If there have been no kills, it's based on how much damage was done. [00:21:54] Speaker E: Yes. [00:21:56] Speaker B: So at 14 minutes, his pit will spawn in either top side river or bottom side river, replacing the like single pixel bush on that side of the river, putting some walls around it. It's very apparent. It's similar to how like Baron Pit and Dragon Pit work. Just it becomes its own pit with entrances on both sides for both teams. At 20 minutes, he spawns. And he has two versions of him as well. In high kill games, he's something called Voracious or no, Ruinous Attacon. And in low kill games, he is Voracious Attacon. I haven't been able to tell a difference of actually fighting the boss. Let's start with Free Shooter and Pilipet. You guys have no experience with the boss yet, right? [00:22:58] Speaker A: The only. The only one I've seen and played against has been the Ruinous. Like that's really the only one that. [00:23:04] Speaker C: I see and I haven't played against. I haven't actually gotten to play in the patch yet, so. [00:23:10] Speaker B: Okay. I've also seen Ruinous nine times out of ten. I've seen Voracious like twice. Out of all the games I've played. [00:23:18] Speaker D: So far, I think I've seen the most variants on them. I've seen a good chunk of Voracious and a good chunk of Ruinous. [00:23:26] Speaker B: So now let's talk about what these two atacons do. If your team is the one that defeats Ruinous Attacon again, this is the one you'll see most of the time. You will get a buff that gives all epic monster rewards such as dragons, the Void grubs, Baron Buff, etc. 25% more effectiveness. It should be noted in the case of Elder Dragon, I believe it only increases the burn damage by 25%. It does not change the execute threshold. [00:24:05] Speaker D: It does not change the execute threshold. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Good Ruinous Attacon also immediately spawns a bunch of bloody roses, which we'll talk about after we talk about the boss, Voracious Attacon. On the other hand, if you have a low kill game, Voracious Attacon will give the team that killed him a permanent 40 gold bonus on champion takedowns for the rest of the game. Basically triumph x2. And within the next two and a half minutes, if you die, you instead enter stasis and return to base automatically. And the killer gets 100 gold instead of whatever your kill bounty would be be. So basically die, but you don't die. [00:24:55] Speaker D: Yeah, it's. It's an. It's an auction respawn for you. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker C: And the killer gets less gold. [00:25:02] Speaker B: The killer gets less gold. You still have whatever bounty you had before. If you were on track for Unkillable Demon King. You're still on track for Unkillable Demon King. [00:25:13] Speaker C: Oh, interesting. [00:25:14] Speaker D: Yes. [00:25:15] Speaker B: It is not a death. [00:25:17] Speaker A: And yeah, I was say it. From what I've noticed and heard like it does not even will not count towards a kill whatsoever. So if a Draven gets the last hit. It does. You don't cash in. [00:25:27] Speaker D: No. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yes. That's the other thing. It prevents. It prevents on kill effects from happening. [00:25:33] Speaker C: Okay. No, I hate this now. Never mind. I do not like this anymore. [00:25:36] Speaker D: It prevents like bel'veth from gaining coral. [00:25:43] Speaker E: Yep. [00:25:43] Speaker B: All of them. Every on kill effect you can think of, it stops them all and just bubbles. Sounds like you back to fountain. [00:25:50] Speaker C: It sounds like the worst version of old Chemtexel. [00:25:53] Speaker D: Like here's the. Here's why it's better by a significant amount. It's once. It's two and a half minutes. [00:26:01] Speaker E: Yep. [00:26:02] Speaker B: The intention of it is very much, hey, this game has been low action go fight already. [00:26:09] Speaker D: You now have the ability to just go in ham go. [00:26:13] Speaker C: It'll be interesting because. So I don't know what like the thresholds are for like low action versus high action. I'll be interested for someone basically data mining and figuring that out. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:25] Speaker C: Because I expect this to be the one that spawns in every pro game. [00:26:29] Speaker D: I think it's 10 kills and I. [00:26:32] Speaker C: Say yeah, this will spawn every single pro game. [00:26:34] Speaker D: I've had very few but I've had voracious out of cons and those had. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Like two of them. I think free shooter is correct that whereas us plebs in solo queue, we're going to see ruinous Atticon 90% of the time. I think pro is going to see voracious Atacon. 90% of the time you say that. [00:26:56] Speaker D: There may be a lot more fighting rounds, buffs and everything now because of feats of strength, I think that may drastically push things. [00:27:05] Speaker B: We'll get to feats of strength. I want to talk about the other Attacon change first, which is when Attacon's pit spawns at 14 minutes, blood roses will start spawning. They do so around his spawn location or in areas where lots of deaths have happened. Blood Roses, you just auto attack them once. They're same as any other jungle plant. But what they give you is they give your entire team some immediate experience and some permanent adaptive force. [00:27:50] Speaker D: It is not a lot, but it. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Is global to your whole team. [00:27:54] Speaker D: Global. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Yeah. The important takeaway of the Blood Roses is if you see one and can hit it without putting yourself in danger, do so, period. [00:28:05] Speaker D: Yeah. It is not worth dying over. [00:28:08] Speaker B: Yeah, not at all. Even the triple ones, because some of them will be triples and some of them will be singles. [00:28:13] Speaker A: I've noticed with the games that I have played that roughly I've ended with about 20ish adaptive force. So it does add up. And you get to like. When you get to like 40 to 60, I think is what I. I've seen. [00:28:29] Speaker D: On average, I. I see in general between 40 and 70 by the end of the game. Not Adaptive Force. The Blood Petals, it stacks. [00:28:36] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:28:36] Speaker B: And that's. And that's specifically on games where Ruinous Atticon is present. Because A, they're higher kill games. There's more Blood Petals because of that. And B, he spawns a shitload of Blood Petals in his pit after you kill him. [00:28:51] Speaker A: And again, it's. Again to. It's important to clarify, like, you do not have to fight your team to get these stacks. Like, you hit a pedal and it goes to your entire team. There will be five stacks sent out, one for each teammate. Like, you do not have to greet over them. [00:29:10] Speaker D: It isn't five stacks. It is one stack for every player. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, each person gets one, so five total will be sent out. Like, everybody benefit from it. [00:29:19] Speaker C: What I'm hearing is, this is a bard buff. [00:29:21] Speaker D: This is pretty much very, very good. I think they are little itty bits of just. If you're roaming around the map, you see a little thing. Oh, smack. And you have a tiny amount more power. And the amount that you get isn't so large that it can fundamentally change a game. [00:29:43] Speaker A: It's a. It's a leak into the first profession of Herbalism in riots. Mmo. [00:29:52] Speaker D: Okay, that's. That's a good one. [00:29:53] Speaker C: That's good, Ken. All right, just quick question, because I haven't played yet. Can they only spawn in the river or jungle, like other planes or anywhere? Okay. [00:30:05] Speaker B: Literally anywhere you'll see them just randomly spawn in Lane, if you have killed. [00:30:09] Speaker D: A lot of people in the base, you will find them in the base. [00:30:13] Speaker B: Yeah, most, I guess. Like, there's a few that will just spawn straight up randomly, but most of them are going to be in the general vicinity of where kills have happened. [00:30:22] Speaker C: I guess I kind of like that as, like, a comeback mechanic too, because. [00:30:26] Speaker D: Like, you can find a lot. [00:30:26] Speaker C: If you're getting pushed in and dying a lot on your side of the map, then going to spawn more on your side of the map. Okay. [00:30:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:32] Speaker C: This is cool. I like this. [00:30:33] Speaker A: And, like, you don't lose them when you die, so, like, you don't have to worry about it. It's awesome. [00:30:39] Speaker B: I like to give experience. [00:30:41] Speaker D: Yes. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah, that's huge. [00:30:42] Speaker B: And if your KDA is worth. They give more experience if your KDA is worse. [00:30:48] Speaker D: Yes. So it's. It's up to 100. So it's 25 to 50, based on how weak you are, essentially. [00:30:58] Speaker E: Yep. [00:30:59] Speaker B: Which is like a minion, but it's like everyone you hit is like a minion kill to your entire team worth of experience. [00:31:06] Speaker D: So. And as a fundamental, the otacon buffs, neither of them is gonna change a gamer. The blood petals, that ruinous otacon drops are going to make whoever can get them meaningfully stronger in the next fight, but not momentously stronger. And realistically, the buffs in general aren't so strong that they are better than Dragon or Baron. [00:31:43] Speaker B: No, the. The big bummer for me is just because Attacon spawns around that Pixel Brush bot, Lane has two people in it, whereas Top Lane has one. Most of the time, I see him spawn Bot Lane, and often the spawn syncs up with the dragon. So one team just wins the fight, gets both objectives back to back. [00:32:04] Speaker D: I don't like that. I've seen a lot more fighting over this. This otacon, he has been the source of so many. So many massive team fights. [00:32:14] Speaker E: Yep. [00:32:14] Speaker A: And he should be notable. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it should be noted, the boss itself, the actual fight with Atticon, as long as you dodge the line of orbs he shoots, doesn't do meaningfully more damage than, like, a hextech dragon or a cloud dragon. [00:32:30] Speaker D: So he. [00:32:30] Speaker A: He does aoe. The big aoe. Like, that hurts like, I Think it does max HP damage in what? Like, I see tanks get, like, as. [00:32:38] Speaker B: A jungler, I have not noticed it doing damage to me. When I play a carry jungler or a tank jungler. [00:32:46] Speaker D: I have noticed the opposite, but only because most of the time in those fights, I die. And so I get the percentage. And he's like, 70% of the damage to you. So he'll be doing, like, fair enough. [00:32:58] Speaker A: They're not very clear on his abilities, so I don't really have any information on, like, what they do. [00:33:03] Speaker B: I want to know the actual raw damage he does. I want to know how it works. Because my experience has been he tickles, and everyone else's experience seems to be the opposite. And I'm like, what is going on here? [00:33:15] Speaker D: You're also primarily tanky junglers, except for the Diana game. [00:33:19] Speaker B: I was going to say, like, he tickled when I played Diana. He tickled when I played Sejuani. He tickled when I played Volibear and Warwick, which I expect that one. He tickled when I played Nocturne. [00:33:30] Speaker D: I think it is. He just does. He stays alive for so long. You are taking so much damage from him, and he is part of the jungle, so you are getting jungle healing. So you just. You're fighting him for such a long scale of time that his overall damage to you is very high, even if his immediate damage to you is rather low. [00:33:53] Speaker C: He also reduces. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Comparing him to Cloud Drake or Hextech. Drake is pretty comparable. [00:33:58] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:33:59] Speaker C: He also stacking reduces your armor and magic resist every time you get hit. [00:34:04] Speaker D: And that would be why a team fight next to him is really dangerous. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Up to 50. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's big. Like, he is really dangerous to fight other players while he is going in the same way that Baron is. And unlike dragons. But that's the only similarity he has to Baron, in my opinion. Yes, that and the fact that he does AoE damage. And if you're dumb enough to stand in the line of orbs, he actually does hurt. [00:34:28] Speaker D: Those orbs he hurt hurt much like Baron. Lasers, they hurt. [00:34:33] Speaker B: Don't stand in them. All right, any other thoughts about Attacon before we move on to the most contentious change in the patch? Okay, guys, They've added a new system to the game called feats of strength. The idea being this is replacing the early game bounties of just raw gold that existed before for, like, first turret and First Blood giving extra gold. They wanted the feats of strength to replace that with something more interesting. The thing that I think everyone will unanimously agree First Blood is not commensurate with the other two. Regardless of how you feel about feats of strength as a whole, First Turret is generally a team effort or a massive disparity between a lane. Monster Slaying is generally a team effort or a massive disparity in the jungle. Because First Turret takes. You have to get through all five plates. And Monster Slaying is three epic monsters, not just the first one. [00:35:44] Speaker D: And no, the Void grubs do not count as three tanks. You must get all three to count as one. [00:35:55] Speaker E: Yep. [00:35:56] Speaker B: If you split the grubs to one, no one gets a stack. And if you split the next set of grubs to one, no one gets a stack. [00:36:04] Speaker C: Oh, okay. I was gonna say no one of. [00:36:05] Speaker B: The team has got four grubs total. [00:36:07] Speaker D: Yes, you must get all three from one set. [00:36:11] Speaker C: Very interesting. Okay. [00:36:13] Speaker E: Yep. [00:36:14] Speaker B: So, like I said, everyone pretty much unanimously agrees First Blood is not commensurate with the other two. [00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Riot has said they will be changing it, but they don't know to what yet. So keep your eyes open on patch two and three. We will see First Blood change. But for now, whichever team completes two of these three feats of strength. First Blood, First Turret refers to three epic monsters wins the feat of strength contest for the game. Everyone's tier 2 boots are immediately upgraded for free. These upgrades are minor. It's been hotfixed already. Circu boots give 2 magic penetration. The others all pretty much give 5 of whatever stat the boots gives, like attack speed, ability, haste magic, resistance, movement speed, etc. That's it. That's the entire upgrade you get for the feat of strength initially. Considering that the feats of strength previously gave bonus gold, this is giving you a little bit of power instead. I don't hate this part. I hate First Blood being part of it, but I don't hate what it gives. [00:37:37] Speaker D: Knowing what they're changing on it is a big deal. Now he's mentioned part of it because, yes, the the base boot bonuses are not the entire end of this. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Yeah, the team that won the feats of strength, after the player has purchased at least two legendary items, they can spend 750 gold to upgrade those boots to a new special version. Most of these give some extra percent movement speed. So for example, for 750 Gold, Zerker's Greaves gives 10% more attack speed, 5 extra flat movement speed. And on attacking a champion, you get some movement speed for two seconds. Lucidity boots. When you damage an enemy with a spell, use a summoner spell. Or buff an ally with a spell. You gain movement speed for a few seconds. Those ones are fine. There are three boots that most of us are pretty mad about. The Sorcerer's shoe Upgrade gives it 10% magic penetration on top of the flat penetration that it already gives. [00:39:00] Speaker C: Wait. That's busted. [00:39:02] Speaker D: Oh, just wait. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Just wait. The two defensive boots, steel caps and merc treads give a shield against their respective damage type. That scales with your maximum health. It is literally a physical or magical canic rookern shield. [00:39:24] Speaker D: It is not a static shield. You must have taken the damage first and then it pops up. But it's a 12 second cooldown. It's meaningful. [00:39:33] Speaker C: That's even more busted. [00:39:35] Speaker B: There's. There's no difference between having the shield up in the first place and having it trigger after your first instance of damage. Unless you're only taking one instance of damage. [00:39:44] Speaker A: It's one hopes. [00:39:46] Speaker D: I guess we poke a little bit better. [00:39:47] Speaker A: I think before we go. They have hotfixed most of these boots since the patch has came out. [00:39:54] Speaker B: I'm not giving the numbers. They've been hotfixed. They're nerfed a little bit. These are just the. The fundamentally. Like what do they do? [00:40:02] Speaker A: Yeah. This is what they came out. [00:40:04] Speaker B: You're right. They did nerf down the. The percent. Magic pen is only 8% now. Not 10%. [00:40:09] Speaker A: But still a lot. [00:40:10] Speaker C: Still busted. [00:40:12] Speaker B: It's so busted. And the shields are busted. Like they're very strong. [00:40:17] Speaker A: They scale. They scale with spirit visage. They scale with all of your. [00:40:21] Speaker E: Yep. [00:40:22] Speaker A: Amplify shielding. Like it's. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Yep. It's so good with Spirit Visage. They scale with just your max health. So like heartsteel champions that are abusing unending despair spirit visage combo already. And end the fimble winter. Like that combo that from last season is still around. The champions that are abusing it are still abusing it. And these boots now just exaggerate the problem even more. [00:40:50] Speaker A: Like Scion's gonna have shields for days. [00:40:53] Speaker C: I was about to say. Does Sciences have the highest win rate on this patch? [00:40:56] Speaker A: Like no shields. [00:40:58] Speaker D: But also I'm yet to see a tank Scion. Every single Scion has gone lethality. [00:41:03] Speaker E: Yep. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Scions win rate is being depressed by people playing him wrong. [00:41:09] Speaker D: Everyone wants to play him as early game as possible. Shove, shove, shove. [00:41:14] Speaker A: First tower. [00:41:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:41:18] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:41:18] Speaker D: So these general like massive changes to these systems have inherently changed how people are looking at what you play in the game. There haven't been a lot of champion changes. We'll have a couple to talk about a little Bit. But as a whole, because of these system changes, you are seeing significantly more very strong early game champions. [00:41:46] Speaker E: Yep. [00:41:48] Speaker B: Lee, Sin and Elise are way more popular all of a sudden, that kind of stuff. Because it turns out if you win the early game, you get overpowered boots. The game gets a lot easier to win. [00:42:00] Speaker A: Like, the boot stats is just insane to me. Like the movement speed boots is the. [00:42:06] Speaker D: Moment speed boots are absurd for someone who actually plays movement speed. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So again, it's. I think the three we highlighted are the outliers. All of the rest of them make you faster. Movement speed is still really strong. And the. The synchronized souls, the. The new Moby boots, whatever thing is cartoonishly fast out of combat. [00:42:33] Speaker D: I think you're at like 450, 500% movement speed. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Running around the map champions like cold who build that are so fast. [00:42:42] Speaker A: Now it's total movement speed bonus. Like this is total movement speed and increase to your entire movement speed. [00:42:51] Speaker D: It's obscenely fast. [00:42:55] Speaker B: Now we do have. We've been talking about boots. What's that? [00:42:59] Speaker C: I should play Hecarim again. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Oh, Hecarim loves this. Yes, we've been talking about boots. Cassiopeia cannot buy boots, so when her team wins the feat of strength, instead she gets an upgrade to her passive for free. She does not get the paid version of boots at all, but she does just automatically get a free version that is upgrading her passive to grant her 6 movement speed per level instead of 4. Cassiopeia is crazy strong on this patch because she gets like 36 extra movement speed at level 18. Just base movement speed if you win the feats of strength. [00:43:43] Speaker D: Yeah, it did not sound like a lot when I looked at this. I went, that's not a lot. You're getting what, two extra two. 36. Oh, geez. Oh, geez. [00:43:54] Speaker E: Yeah. [00:43:55] Speaker B: By comparison, the boot upgrades are Giving you like 10% move speed and then a 4% move speed multiplier that swifties. [00:44:04] Speaker C: I was going to say for comparison sake. Like, if you're not sure how much like raw, like what the feeling of that is. The difference between boots, like baseline boots of swiftness and basically every other boot type is 45 move speed versus 60. So it's a difference of 15. So double that difference and then add 6. [00:44:28] Speaker E: Yep. [00:44:29] Speaker D: Well, this is. This is like not having boots and then having boots. [00:44:34] Speaker C: It's more than that because base boots are 25. [00:44:36] Speaker D: Yeah, it's so. Yeah, very fast. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Cassiopeia is very happy with feats of strength despite not being able to buy boots. Is the the point of mentioning that here. Okay. There's a bunch of smaller changes. We want to highlight some of them because we have opinions pillow. I'm going to throw it over to you because you were salty about the teleport changes. [00:45:05] Speaker A: I'm still. [00:45:05] Speaker B: So here is your chance to rant. How does teleport really make you feel? [00:45:11] Speaker A: So I'm going to come in this, both sides, the good and the bad on this. I don't like it because it's. Everything about it has changed. So like just throw in an instance. Say you would normally would back on a tower or a cannon wave. You'd let your cannon wave would come to your tower. You TP back, you get the whole wave. Now if you TP back to this cannon, most likely it's going to be dead. Like it's. It takes so long to teleport. Like I'll be like, hey, put a ward in bot lane. I'll see you guys in four to five business days. Like that's how it feels. It feels incredibly slow. So they removed or they. It used to be a 4 second channel in an instant like you would appear. Now it's a three second channel. So there's some adjustments. I've always, you know, we've always told you you can buy at the 2 gold mark and you'd have enough time to get to your or Teleport at the 2 gold marking to. And then you'd have enough time to get to the rounded number to buy before you teleport. It's now three seconds. So that's going to change that a little bit. A lot actually. And like I just got to read it. So the, it's eight seconds now to. [00:46:27] Speaker D: Travel up to double does. It's not just, it's, it's not just. [00:46:32] Speaker A: 8 seconds based on distance. [00:46:34] Speaker D: Yeah, if you are going farther it. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Takes longer but most likely like it's not going to be the 4 seconds instant. So you're looking at 3 seconds to channel and then the additional time to travel from point A to point B in a untargetable like uninterruptible dash. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Okay, so the, the way they wrote this is so confusing. Is it one to five seconds of travel time after the three second channel? Okay, that makes sense. [00:47:07] Speaker A: It is still a very long time. So like yes, it feels bad early, before unleashed, after unleashed. It. It doesn't feel terrible. It doesn't feel bad. Like there is a noticeable difference. But now I've talked about the ugly and I could talk about it all day. The Bad that I don't like the travel time. The good. You could TP now to minions. You can TP now towards. You can TP anywhere on the map that you could with unleashed from the very beginning. Like, so it's not all bad. There is, like, it opens up early play. [00:47:46] Speaker D: They knocked a minute of its cooldown. [00:47:49] Speaker E: Yep. [00:47:50] Speaker B: That's the other thing. They reduced the cooldown for the initial version so you can maybe actually use it twice before it becomes unleashed. Also, and I thought this was really funny because it is now an untargetable, unstoppable dash. Instead of a blink, if you teleport through jungle buff camps that are waiting for you to pick up the buff, you'll pick them up on route, which is hilarious to me. [00:48:17] Speaker A: That's funny. It's funny that you mentioned that, because I have seen plays now where the laner will go put a deep ward at the enemy's buff, and the jungle will now teleport to the enemy's buff as soon as they take their buff and take the enemy's buff and teleport across map. Like, there's. There's. I've seen plays of that happen now. And it's bizarre. Singed poisoned poison works with a teleport now. It follows him behind. [00:48:47] Speaker C: That's hilarious. [00:48:48] Speaker B: A few weird mechanics that happen because of this. [00:48:51] Speaker A: There. I can't say it's the worst change that Riot's ever done because there's plenty of them. I don't like it because, like we mentioned earlier, change. I'm not a big fan of, like, for drastic change. This is a fundamental change. [00:49:06] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:49:06] Speaker A: Like, this is a huge change. Like, especially as a top laner, because your whole mindset in laning is based around your teleport and smart use of it. [00:49:17] Speaker B: A question because I. I haven't been paying attention to this. Does it still prevent the minion you target from dying? [00:49:23] Speaker A: Yes. So I thought so. No, it does not. No. You can kill the minion and you still teleport to the spot that that minion was. So it doesn't. [00:49:31] Speaker B: This is a huge nerf to Zach is what I'm hearing. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Yes. Yep. You could still kill a minion. It does not cancel your back. I've yet to see any teleports canceled. [00:49:43] Speaker D: So I've yet to see it kill the minion. Die. So that. That feels. [00:49:46] Speaker A: I mean, I've. I've killed the minion, so, like, I can. I can preach like that. It does happen. You can kill the minion and I've had the Minion killed on me. And then someone go whoa, wait, that didn't cancel your tp? No, not anymore. Well, it never did in the first place. But it doesn't cancel. Like you just go to the location. I don't know if it reveals wards yet. I haven't learned that. I don't know if it reveals the wards and lets that leaves that ward. [00:50:12] Speaker D: I think it does. It doesn't reveal the war, it reveals the location. It does the little laser beam like it did before. Only that matters a lot because now it's there for like eight seconds. [00:50:23] Speaker A: So think of it like this. You're. You click teleport if you haven't got the chance to play with it and you teleport to a minion, whatever. A minion or a ward or a tower. But more, you know, on a ward or a minion there's going to show a little circle on the ground and there's going to be a little dial. Think of like a zillion bomb like that as a little timer on it. And that when that completes, that's when you're travel like you're there. So you can see how long you have until the enemy or your ally is at that location. And it goes from a point A to point B. Straight line, like a briar alt. Like they're there. Like there is no stopping it. [00:51:04] Speaker D: So there's a couple of interesting shenanigans that are like you would think about this. You, you can think that hey, you become un targetable, unstoppable. This becomes something you can try and no, there's nothing in the game with over a three second channel time. So you can't do shenanigans like dodge a carth assault with it. You still take damage while you're moving. If you have a dot on you, you still have damage on you. [00:51:33] Speaker C: Yeah. If anything, I was gonna say if anything this removes some of the like weird interactions like Akali, sure, it can flip following a teleport, things like that. [00:51:41] Speaker D: Oh no, she can still do that. [00:51:42] Speaker A: She can still do it on Unleashed, on Unleashed, but in like on the. If it's slow enough, if Akali reaches her target, she just stops. Same with like Nocturne if Nocturne alts or like I think this is a big nerf to Warwick because he can no longer, he can no longer do it because it's just going to stop him right where it is. Shinol like if you're shin alting someone that's TPing like the whole weird play like you have to time it. You have to time it like it'll stop if your shin alt will drop you right in the middle of traveling. [00:52:12] Speaker D: Wherever you are, you have to wait till they reach there. But it does mean it is massively easier to teleport away. 3 seconds versus 4 seconds on the channel time means you have a significant better chance of sneaking out of places with a teleport. [00:52:30] Speaker E: Yep. [00:52:32] Speaker B: It's not sneaky because they'll see you. They'll see you, but they won't be able to do anything about it. [00:52:39] Speaker A: The biggest use for teleport that I've noticed and just as the last bit I'll follow is now a lot of people are incorporating it to take the first tower. They're using it to get to that. That lane with that. That they can rush that first tower and just get it done. [00:52:54] Speaker E: Yep. [00:52:54] Speaker B: Because Feeds a strength. [00:52:56] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:52:58] Speaker B: Okay. There were some champion changes and I'm just gonna summarize them. The dominant early game AD carries Ash, Callista and Varys received minor nurse. [00:53:12] Speaker D: There have been a couple other changes in this patch. There's a couple other changes that are not super relevant. They've done standard tuning to a couple of other champions. Vex, Ziggs, Victor, Seraphine, etc. [00:53:25] Speaker C: Those are only in Swift Play, which is weird that they're separately balancing Swift Play. And I actually hate that. But that's another thing. [00:53:34] Speaker B: So we didn't mention Swift Play. Blind is gone. If you were on a server that had Blind before. Quick Play is gone. It is now called Swift Play. It is an actually different game mode. It is like. It's like halfway between Nexus Blitz and regular Summoner's Rift. It is an accelerated Summoner's Rift game. [00:53:56] Speaker D: They want you to try and finish a game by 25 minutes, I think is what it is. [00:54:02] Speaker B: Yeah, we're not going to talk about Swift Play much because it is fundamentally a different game. [00:54:08] Speaker D: That's going to be really annoying because those changes were before regular changes. So I got fucking. I got scared. [00:54:14] Speaker C: It's because it was part of the hotfix. [00:54:17] Speaker D: Okay. [00:54:19] Speaker B: Okay. Items. They made only a few item changes and we're only going to talk about half of them. Heartsteel had some number tweaks. Warmogs had some number tweaks. They've added an AP Bruiser penetration item. An item that used to be in arena called Bloodletter's Curse has been ported over to Summoner's Rift. It's another haunting guys item. Same as Riftmaker and Liandry's gives Ability Power, Health, Ability, Haste. It's actually the exact same build path as riftmaker, just 100 gold cheaper. And dealing magic damage with abilities or passives, which is an important qualifier on that two champions reduces their magic resistance by 5% up to 30%. It is important to note this is with abilities or passives. So like Brand Passive and Mordekaiser Passive and Lillia Passive will stack this to the cap very, very fast. Playing some other champion who built Liandries and Blackfire Torch item damage does not stack it. [00:55:32] Speaker D: There are two champions that are going to have a little weird interaction with this one. You have Azir, whose auto attacks count when you have the birds. Each one of the birds counts as a separate instance of damage. And then you have Diana specifically because that third auto attack from her passive is an auto attack. That is a passive effect. [00:55:57] Speaker E: Yep. [00:55:58] Speaker B: She also because her W hits three times, she can stack it pretty quick. [00:56:02] Speaker D: She stacks it pretty quick for clarity. [00:56:04] Speaker A: Reasons to make sure I understand. Like, I'll use Diana as the example here. So her W gives her three shield procs. Like three orbs. Does each orb or is it just count as one ability? [00:56:17] Speaker B: It's like Black Cleaver rules almost. [00:56:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:56:20] Speaker D: Dealing damage with abilities. It's not each cast. So if you have an ability that does multiple instances of damage, that will do multiple instances of Blood Letters Curse Passive. [00:56:34] Speaker C: So like this is core on a moomoo, right? Like, I'm just reading this and I'm like, no. Really? [00:56:40] Speaker D: No. Because. [00:56:43] Speaker B: Because abyssal mask is 30% for anyone near you already. And they are mutually exclusive. [00:56:48] Speaker C: Yes, they are mutually exclusive. Okay. [00:56:50] Speaker D: Yes. Abyssal Mask is exclusive with all other pen items. [00:56:54] Speaker B: This is this. Bloodletter's Curse is exclusive with Abyssal Mask, Void Staff and Crypt Blood. [00:57:00] Speaker C: Gotcha. Okay. I didn't realize that piece of it. That's important. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Now it is important to note this reduces enemy resistances instead of prodriding penetration. So there is a team synergy. If you as the AP Bruiser or otherwise champion that abuses this builds this item and a different carry on your team builds a Void Staff. And then you can benefit from both. [00:57:23] Speaker D: Yes. [00:57:24] Speaker B: Same same thing as like Black Cleaver makes all of your Lethality users and Last Whisper Item users better. [00:57:33] Speaker D: This functions identically to how Abyssal Mask does. They both reduce. Mr. Yep. [00:57:40] Speaker C: Now, if two different champ. If like one person has abyssal Mask and someone else's Bloodletters curse, I believe. [00:57:50] Speaker B: You'Ll still only reduce by 30%. [00:57:52] Speaker C: Okay. [00:57:53] Speaker D: I think they're. I think they're both called Vile Decay? [00:57:56] Speaker B: I believe so. [00:57:57] Speaker C: Okay. [00:57:59] Speaker D: I'll go look that up. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Okay, while you're looking that up, let's talk about the other item change. That's significant. Unending Despair is no longer just an armor item. It's had its build path change. It's had its proc changed a little bit. It now has 25 armor and 25 Mr. Instead of 60 armor, it now has 350 health instead of 400. So it is nerfed in the total amount of stats it gives. Okay. [00:58:29] Speaker D: Abyssal Mask is unmake, which makes Nearby enemy champions take percent more magic damage. [00:58:38] Speaker C: No, it is reduced their magic resistance by 30%. So. But it is a different name so someone smarter than us will figure it out. [00:58:48] Speaker B: So, Pillow Pet, talk about unending despair for a moment. Mike and I are going to go into the practice tool because by the way, you can now go up to a 10 person practice tool. [00:58:59] Speaker C: Yup. [00:59:00] Speaker B: And we're gonna find out live on the podcast. [00:59:02] Speaker A: That's fun. So Unending Despair is a very strong item and it's always been a strong item, but it's only great when it's only the best item. I would say when you're going against melee or ad teams, it feels really bad when it's like a necessary item in your build path. Maokai, I think I know there's other champions, but Maokai, right off the top of my head for sure builds this item because it synergizes so well with him. Feels really bad when the team has five AP users and you're forced to go in ending despair. And it didn't have any Mr. Stats whatsoever. So it's really good. Now I feel like to have armor and Mr. In the same item with this and it's going to just make it a better overall item. It's splitting, you know, the armor almost in half. A little more than half. And you're getting. It's going up. The Mr. Is getting added to it to make up for that. So it's a better tool for a tank to take on multiple forms of damage. So I think it's just going to be a. The health. I don't know. I'm not reading through it like the, I think the, the dealing health damage and the healing went up as well when I briefly looked over it. So it's gonna feel kind of like it didn't go up a lot. Let's see, it's now every four seconds. [01:00:35] Speaker C: Yeah. So every tick is less, but it's ticks more often. [01:00:40] Speaker D: Oh, that. That triggered it instantly. [01:00:42] Speaker B: Okay. So Mike and I have tested Abyssal Mask got changed and it's not fucking documented. [01:00:50] Speaker D: It is not. Oh, what I. What I said was true. Unmake is what its passive is nearby Enemy Champions raw take percent more magic damage. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Which is not what it did before. [01:01:02] Speaker D: Bloodletter's curse reduces Mr. You can get both. [01:01:08] Speaker E: Yep. [01:01:09] Speaker B: I wish they would document changes like this. That should be in the fucking patch notes Riot. [01:01:14] Speaker C: That's not even on the wiki. Damn. Okay. [01:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. [01:01:20] Speaker D: Like this had to be. They did that specifically because Blood Irish Curse was coming in and they. They changed what Abyssal Mask was. So yeah, you're probably gonna do both with Amumu if you're building an AP. [01:01:30] Speaker C: Build and you have a lot of AP Champions on your team. But yeah. [01:01:36] Speaker B: Also it is on the wiki. You're looking at the old wiki. The fandom wiki is dead, by the way. We're trying to look things up on the wiki. Guys. Go to wiki.leagueoflegends.com do not go to the fandom wiki. The fandom wiki is outdated. [01:01:49] Speaker C: The fandom wiki's still the first result. Google shit. [01:01:53] Speaker B: The fandom wiki is still going to be the first result for a long time. Path of exile went through the same thing. Fandom is garbage. They're a terrible one that make the wiki completely hard to use and super ad laden. So wiki.leagueoflegends.com if you want to look things up. That is the currently maintained wiki. [01:02:13] Speaker A: Blood Letters curse is going to be a scary item on AP Berser like Mordekaiser. I feel like it's definitely gonna be. He needs it because of how fast I'm just stack it. [01:02:25] Speaker B: I'm just mad that there's no documented changes in this patch note. It changed this patch. Abyssal Mask now does not reduce magic resistance. It now amps magic damage. It's no longer in the same limit group as it was. It gained Mr. And lost HP. Like the entire item was reworked and it's not in the patch notes. Guys, I cannot express enough how mad I am at Riot for this. So, yeah, you can build Bloodletter's Curse and Abyssal Mask if you want. [01:02:59] Speaker A: That's insane damage. [01:03:04] Speaker B: Did you have any other thoughts about unending despair? [01:03:07] Speaker A: No. No. I. I think I pretty much went over it. It's. It's still a very good item, if not better. [01:03:14] Speaker B: I feel like this item is now just mandatory on all like teamfight tanks, period. It was already pretty much there as like, this has to be the armor item you buy. [01:03:26] Speaker D: Yeah. Everyone needed an armor item, if only because you needed to take damage from tank from towers. [01:03:34] Speaker E: Yep. [01:03:35] Speaker B: But with it now being a mixed resist item, I feel like now it's just you always buy this item and I'm not a fan of it being that mandatory, but it is really strong. So abuse it while it exists. Because I don't think this item's gonna stick around because I riot stated in their thing that they're trying to move it from a generic team fight winning armor item to an item for health stackers. And it's still a generic team fight winning item. It's just not an armor item anymore. It's an armor Mr. Item. [01:04:12] Speaker C: I was gonna say this makes it way better because like most of the time, most of my tank playing is in Aram, but like, there's a lot of times it's like, man, I would love an unending despair. But too bad it's like mostly magic damage. That's magic damage. That's. Now it's like, oh boy, I get to build an ending despair every game. [01:04:29] Speaker E: Yep. [01:04:30] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk. We're running long this episode, but that's fine. We have one more patch change we want to highlight. They changed some of the runes. Specifically, the entire vision row of the red tree has been changed and one rune in the blue tree has been changed. So Ghost, Poro, Zombie Ward, Eyeball collection are all gone. In their place are deep ward wards placed in the enemy jungle are considered deep. After level 11, wards in the river are considered deep. Deep wards get an extra health and last longer. It's a pretty good rune. I. I like it. The extra health is whatever. It makes the enemy have to spend slightly longer to kill it. But the extra duration is big because that's usually where you want to be warding. [01:05:33] Speaker A: Now just it. Don't mention it. So I don't assume like this will not affect pink wards. [01:05:39] Speaker B: Correct. This is specifically stealth wards. [01:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:43] Speaker B: The yellow trinket wards or the wards that a support places from their support item. [01:05:49] Speaker C: This is also a bard buff. [01:05:53] Speaker E: Yep. [01:05:54] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:05:54] Speaker B: This also. This does not affect blue trinket wards, to be clear. [01:06:00] Speaker D: Well, it's true those are infinitely lasting, but they don't get extra health. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Correct. Okay. The second option, it's called sixth sense. You automatically ping untracked and unseen wards within 900 units, which is slightly outside the longest auto attack range in the game. After level 11. It will also reveal the ward for 10 seconds. This has a five minute cooldown for melee champions and a six minute cooldown for ranged champions. This is the I'm jungling and I want to know if I'm wasting my time sitting on an enemy ward rune. [01:06:39] Speaker D: This is big for like support wound. If you're. You're going to be roaming around, it's probably not as good as deep board. If you are someone who's playing a gank heavy support, it's. [01:06:49] Speaker B: It's not as good as either of the other two. [01:06:52] Speaker D: You're right. [01:06:54] Speaker B: So supports. [01:06:55] Speaker A: I feel like a way they could make this. This rune great is to reduce that cooldown for each ward destroyed. Like it reduces the cooldown. But five minutes is a long time. [01:07:08] Speaker D: Yeah. But this is anything else you may have in addition to your. In addition to umbrell umbrella glaive. This is just for free. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Well, I'm not disagreeing on that. But like, if you're not playing a lethality or someone that reveals words like that, I think there should be some kind of reward for taking out those wards. And even if it's just like 30 seconds or 10 seconds award, like it would just. I feel like it would make it feel better. [01:07:39] Speaker B: Here's the thing. What this is for. This is for junglers like Lee Sin, who wants. [01:07:44] Speaker C: I was about to say trinket ward. Yeah. [01:07:48] Speaker B: Because now you also get to detect wards. [01:07:51] Speaker C: Yep. [01:07:52] Speaker D: I don't know if it happens, but this says it automatically pings untracked wards. If they have been untracked, you might also get the pingold. [01:08:03] Speaker B: I'm not sure. [01:08:04] Speaker D: Don't know. We haven't checked, we haven't tested. But if it does, hey, it's five gold every time you see an unseen ward. [01:08:11] Speaker E: Yep. [01:08:12] Speaker B: Okay, so the last vision rune. It's called Grizzly Mementos. For each champion takedown, you get four trinket ability haste up to a maximum of 50. And I want to drive home how crazy that is because we had a rune in the next tier below in that tree that gave trinket haste. Basically because it gave item haste was ingenious Hunter. Ingenious Hunter gave less item haste until it was fully stacked at full stacks. It was 50. And it let you use your trinket all the goddamn time. [01:09:05] Speaker C: And for reference, to get 50 stacks, it's 13 takedowns. 12 and a half, but you know, 13. [01:09:11] Speaker E: Yes. [01:09:13] Speaker B: So if you are part of 13 kills, 13 kills or assists, you have ludicrously fast trinket cooldowns. Supports should pretty much all be taking this in my opinion over even Deep Ward because of the amount it lets you spam your sweeper, but Deep Ward is like an acceptable alternate option. This rune is also crazy. [01:09:41] Speaker D: This note to note. This is like where. Yeah, this is what happens Deep or. [01:09:46] Speaker B: Is the get more vision. This is the deny vision rune. If you're a Sweeper champion, you want grizzly mementos. [01:09:53] Speaker D: This is also the one where if you are playing anything besides a game mode where there's. There's a vision, this becomes Summoner ability haste. And yep, you flip over every. Every one of the ward runes becomes this one. It's not relevant. [01:10:09] Speaker A: Is this Lee Sin's go to rune now? [01:10:13] Speaker B: No, because I think he actually really wants sixth sense to let him still get vision control while using an actual Warding totem for his lease in place. [01:10:24] Speaker D: He'll have less overall words, but he'll have vision denial. [01:10:31] Speaker B: It lets him have both. [01:10:32] Speaker D: Yeah. So it means he. He never. Like he would still buy pin chords anyways, no matter what. But he'd use them mostly for kicking. He's still gonna do that now? [01:10:43] Speaker E: Yep. [01:10:47] Speaker B: Okay. Any other thoughts about the wording trio before we talk about the last rune? [01:10:51] Speaker D: It's better. I think these are just better versions of the other ones that they're. [01:10:57] Speaker B: They're better considering everyone just ran Eyeball Collection and didn't think about it before. [01:11:03] Speaker D: I mean each. Each one of these has a genuine purpose. They're gonna be used all the time. [01:11:12] Speaker B: And outside of Aram, none of them provide combat power anymore. [01:11:16] Speaker D: Yes, true. [01:11:18] Speaker C: Also, I just wanted to check like what 50 extra haste looks like on say sweeper. It. You know sweeper is like variable cooldown. Like 160 down to 100 but like 50 haste is 33%. Like CDR. So like. Yeah, a third more often you're getting sweepers. That's nuts. [01:11:46] Speaker B: Like I said, it's. I always ran Ingenious Hunter when I was playing jungle before just for the sweeper cooldown. Regardless of what other item cooldowns, I would run run because it was that strong. This is that again. Okay. The last changes, they got rid of nullifying orb because no one ever took it. Everyone was either taking the move speed one or manaflow band. So they've given us a third option. And I really like this rune for one specific reason. But let me explain what it is first. It's called Axiom Arcanist. Your ultimate abilities damage healing and or shielding is increased by 14% or 9% if it's an AOE ability. Takedowns on enemy champions refund 7% of your ultimate ability's current remaining cooldown. That last part is what makes it really exciting, but also like it increases the damage. So like Karthus absolutely fucking adores this rune. He previously went Ultimate Hunter. I think he goes this instead always. [01:12:56] Speaker D: Now the question is whether or not it's each champion takedown refunding 7% if it is. [01:13:03] Speaker B: It works. It works exactly like axiom arc. It's just 7% instead of 15 plus percent. [01:13:09] Speaker D: That's 45% reduced if he gets a pentakill. [01:13:16] Speaker B: 35% but yes. [01:13:18] Speaker D: Nope. Yeah, 35. [01:13:23] Speaker B: It's. [01:13:23] Speaker D: It's. [01:13:24] Speaker B: It's nuts. I have played a game of Nocturne with this instead of Ultimate Hunter. It feels real good. [01:13:32] Speaker C: I'm more just. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Real good. [01:13:34] Speaker C: I'm more just thinking about the implication of like 14 increased ult damage is. [01:13:40] Speaker D: A lot if you're a champion who. Whose ultimate is like a team fight defining ultimate. Even if it's 9% for AOE. That's a lot of damage. [01:13:53] Speaker E: Yep. [01:13:53] Speaker B: Now, it is important to note most of the champions that you're thinking of that would be the most abusive with this have to give up manaflow band, which is a lot. [01:14:02] Speaker C: Yes. That's part of the problem. [01:14:04] Speaker B: So like, yeah, Syndra with 14% more damage sounds scary, but Syndra that doesn't have enough mana to cast her abilities doesn't. [01:14:12] Speaker C: So yeah, I was thinking that with like Kassadin. I think Kassadin goes this. [01:14:19] Speaker A: Have you stacked this with Axiom Arc itself? [01:14:23] Speaker B: I have not. I didn't want to go lethality in the one Nocturne game I played. But I can tell you that by 20 minutes it had returned. Reduced about two minutes worth of Ultimate Cooldown itself. It does track that on the rune. [01:14:38] Speaker A: Man, this is gonna be a gross rune. [01:14:41] Speaker D: I really wish I'd done that for my game. Hold on. Can I see if I can figure out what my runes were for that game? [01:14:49] Speaker B: You probably had Ultimate Hunter and Ultimate Hunter may or may not have reduced the cooldown more. But this also boosts the damage it and lets you go into the the sorcery tree so you can grab the ad over time. Which is what I did. [01:15:06] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:15:06] Speaker B: Which helped me stay relevant in the late game on Nocturne. [01:15:10] Speaker C: God Fiddlesticks is going to be a monster with this. [01:15:14] Speaker E: Yep. [01:15:14] Speaker B: 9% more damage and slightly more often Ult. [01:15:17] Speaker C: You know what I didn't even think of like cannon in a rumble. [01:15:21] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:15:22] Speaker B: 9% more damage. They don't need mana flow. [01:15:25] Speaker A: I wonder if Shin's gonna take it. [01:15:27] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:15:29] Speaker C: Because I could see it increase shielding. [01:15:30] Speaker B: It gives him a. It makes the shield 14% bigger. That's huge. And then also just some refunds when the fight is over so he can do it again sooner. Like, it actually does seem really good on Shen. I agree. [01:15:46] Speaker A: That's the first champion I thought of when I saw the shielding. Cinna. [01:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah, because 14% more shielding is increasing the likelihood that your teammate survives for you to arrive. [01:15:57] Speaker A: Senna gets the bonus from the shield and the damage one. Or she takes it. [01:16:03] Speaker C: Oh, wait. Swain. Because it increases healing. [01:16:08] Speaker E: Yep. [01:16:10] Speaker C: I was trying to think like who. [01:16:11] Speaker B: Is healing on their ult, but. Yes. [01:16:13] Speaker D: No, I. I did. I did Soraka. [01:16:16] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:16:18] Speaker D: Yumi. Etc. But I did Ultimate Hunter on that game. [01:16:23] Speaker A: It's reduced to 9% for AOE. I just read that. [01:16:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:16:27] Speaker B: But still, like, still a lot. [01:16:29] Speaker A: A lot. Well, I mean, we'll just round it up to an even 10. That's 10 more damage on swain. [01:16:34] Speaker D: 10% more damage, 10% more healing. Yeah, because it's both. [01:16:39] Speaker B: But again, it means you have to give up mana flow. Band. I like that it is in the same row as. Because most of the champions that would be the most abusive with this want manaflow band. [01:16:54] Speaker E: Yep. [01:16:56] Speaker B: Otherwise you'd be seeing like Veigar and Syndra taking this every game and it would be brutal. They still might take it, but they have to make other trade offs to manage their mana now. [01:17:05] Speaker C: Yep. Oh, you know who this would be freaking amazing on? [01:17:13] Speaker E: Who? [01:17:14] Speaker C: Lucian. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Top. [01:17:15] Speaker C: Because you just get to alt down people even faster now. [01:17:19] Speaker B: There you go. I don't actually know if Lucian's ult counts as AOE or single target. [01:17:23] Speaker D: Single. [01:17:24] Speaker B: It's either 9 or 14% stronger. [01:17:26] Speaker D: I believe it's single. [01:17:28] Speaker B: All right, guys, that is patch 25s1 1. This. This has been episode 464 of the Forwards Pad podcast. Please, for the love of God, write in your questions. It's a new season. There's tons of new shit. Write in. We'll explain whatever it is you want explained. For the four words podcastmail.com. that's the email address. It's linked in the episode description, but that's it. So I've been Jack Selman for free Shooter, for Mike of Many Names, and for Pillow Pet. Have a great night. [01:18:03] Speaker A: Good night. [01:18:04] Speaker D: Good night everybody. [01:18:07] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the four awards podcast. If you liked what you heard and you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com the Fourwards podcast to give us some support. We appreciate you and of course, listeners. Please don't forget to write your questions into theforwardspodcastmail.com so we can answer them on the show.